Discussion:
10's of 1,000's, perhaps 100's of 1,000,s Saw God!
(too old to reply)
Robert
2017-01-08 23:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Many have read this, yet not seen it.

Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 

Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18  No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)

Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.

Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...

Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me. 
Joh 14:7  If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him. 
Joh 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied. 
Joh 14:9  Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father? 

Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.

Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.

Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...

Joh 20:26  Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you! 
Joh 20:27  Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe! 
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.

Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.

So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.

Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."

Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.

JW's and others are following idols, false images, as part of their
doctrines, their Jesus is not the Jesus that is spoken of in the words
of John. A fact hardly disputed by James when he says he follows a
"Jesus" that the Christians do not. And He is right, he follows a
false image, one he calls Jesus, but knows not. Same with some others
here.
Patrick
2017-01-09 01:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Simple.
Jesus is God.
God the Father is God.
Any questions?
astarte
2017-01-09 01:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 
Except, Moses, the elders of israel with moses, enoch, & elijah. & that
may not be all.

snip continuation of ignorance by Robert.

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
duke
2017-01-09 13:19:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18  No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me. 
Joh 14:7  If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him. 
Joh 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied. 
Joh 14:9  Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father? 
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26  Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you! 
Joh 20:27  Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe! 
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
JW's and others are following idols, false images, as part of their
doctrines, their Jesus is not the Jesus that is spoken of in the words
of John. A fact hardly disputed by James when he says he follows a
"Jesus" that the Christians do not. And He is right, he follows a
false image, one he calls Jesus, but knows not. Same with some others
here.
They saw flesh only. The never saw divinity, nor knew of his divinity until
after he ascended to the Father..

Philippians 2:6-8New International Version (NIV)

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own
advantage;

rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Robert
2017-01-09 19:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18  No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me. 
Joh 14:7  If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him. 
Joh 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied. 
Joh 14:9  Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father? 
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26  Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you! 
Joh 20:27  Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe! 
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
JW's and others are following idols, false images, as part of their
doctrines, their Jesus is not the Jesus that is spoken of in the words
of John. A fact hardly disputed by James when he says he follows a
"Jesus" that the Christians do not. And He is right, he follows a
false image, one he calls Jesus, but knows not. Same with some others
here.
They saw flesh only. The never saw divinity, nor knew of his divinity until
after he ascended to the Father..
Philippians 2:6-8New International Version (NIV)

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own
advantage;

rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!
the dukester, American-American
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.

In fact, to use one of your arguments regarding God being one, Jesus
was born as God/man. His name meaning God with us.

You dispute with God and his word with your words and actions. Any
particular reason for it?
astarte
2017-01-09 20:52:17 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 11:48:30 -0800, Robert snip, 115 lines
--
Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
Patrick
2017-01-09 22:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.
In fact, to use one of your arguments regarding God being one, Jesus
was born as God/man. His name meaning God with us.
You dispute with God and his word with your words and actions. Any
particular reason for it?
Duke is 100 percent correct.
Since you do not understand or believe in the Trinity, you will never
accept what real Christians believe.
You need to get over it.
Real Christians believe in the Trinity.
You obviously do not.
Robert
2017-01-10 16:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Robert
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.
In fact, to use one of your arguments regarding God being one, Jesus
was born as God/man. His name meaning God with us.
You dispute with God and his word with your words and actions. Any
particular reason for it?
Duke is 100 percent correct.
Since you do not understand or believe in the Trinity, you will never
accept what real Christians believe.
You need to get over it.
Real Christians believe in the Trinity.
You obviously do not.
The bible does not teach it, nor do you even know what it means. You
only say it because you were taught it, you were even told that if you
did not accept that teaching you would go to hell. They forced you,
out of fear, to accept it.
Patrick
2017-01-10 19:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Patrick
Post by Robert
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.
In fact, to use one of your arguments regarding God being one, Jesus
was born as God/man. His name meaning God with us.
You dispute with God and his word with your words and actions. Any
particular reason for it?
Duke is 100 percent correct.
Since you do not understand or believe in the Trinity, you will never
accept what real Christians believe.
You need to get over it.
Real Christians believe in the Trinity.
You obviously do not.
The bible does not teach it,
Yup.
The Bible also doesn't teach the Bible exists.
Post by Robert
nor do you even know what it means. You
only say it because you were taught it, you were even told that if you
did not accept that teaching you would go to hell. They forced you,
out of fear, to accept it.
I accept it because I understand it enough to know it exists.
You see, I read the Bible, and especially the words of Jesus.
duke
2017-01-10 12:38:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18  No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me. 
Joh 14:7  If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him. 
Joh 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied. 
Joh 14:9  Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father? 
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26  Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you! 
Joh 20:27  Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe! 
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
JW's and others are following idols, false images, as part of their
doctrines, their Jesus is not the Jesus that is spoken of in the words
of John. A fact hardly disputed by James when he says he follows a
"Jesus" that the Christians do not. And He is right, he follows a
false image, one he calls Jesus, but knows not. Same with some others
here.
They saw flesh only. The never saw divinity, nor knew of his divinity until
after he ascended to the Father..
Philippians 2:6-8New International Version (NIV)

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own
advantage;

rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!
the dukester, American-American
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.
Give it a break, repete. Scripture says NO man has seen God. Scripture says
"he made himself nothing". End of story. Jesus said "follow me", and no man
would even try is the thought for a second that he was trying to follow
divinity.
Post by Robert
In fact, to use one of your arguments regarding God being one, Jesus
was born as God/man. His name meaning God with us.
You dispute with God and his word with your words and actions. Any
particular reason for it?
Yes, Jesus is fully man and fully God. But no man saw anything but man.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Robert
2017-01-10 17:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18  No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me. 
Joh 14:7  If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him. 
Joh 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied. 
Joh 14:9  Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father? 
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26  Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you! 
Joh 20:27  Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe! 
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
JW's and others are following idols, false images, as part of their
doctrines, their Jesus is not the Jesus that is spoken of in the words
of John. A fact hardly disputed by James when he says he follows a
"Jesus" that the Christians do not. And He is right, he follows a
false image, one he calls Jesus, but knows not. Same with some others
here.
They saw flesh only. The never saw divinity, nor knew of his divinity until
after he ascended to the Father..
Philippians 2:6-8New International Version (NIV)

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own
advantage;

rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!
the dukester, American-American
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.
Give it a break, repete. Scripture says NO man has seen God. Scripture says
"he made himself nothing". End of story. Jesus said "follow me", and no man
would even try is the thought for a second that he was trying to follow
divinity.
Well, Earl, the plain and simple fact is that Jesus said, if you have
seen me you have seen God. Are you calling Jesus a liar? All I did was
quote HIS words.

Jesus is God, he was divinity and is. And now you have just a peak at
the truth, you are absolutely right in that no man can follow
divinity, that is why mankind by faith must be born again, become a
new creature in Christ Jesus, it is also why the Holy Spirit takes up
residence within our spirit, and seals the spirit unto salvation. It
is why mankind, once born again is empowered with the power of God via
the Holy Spirit, plus via our spirits our minds now become renewed in
the things of God. and the sum total of this gives us the reality of
being just like Him. Scripture says, as Jesus Christ is, so are we IN
THIS WORLD.

Yes, you cannot do it by yourself, and that is what God has been
trying to teach and show you. Not by works lest any man boast.
Post by duke
Post by Robert
In fact, to use one of your arguments regarding God being one, Jesus
was born as God/man. His name meaning God with us.
You dispute with God and his word with your words and actions. Any
particular reason for it?
Yes, Jesus is fully man and fully God. But no man saw anything but man.
Then why did Thomas say with amazement, My Lord and my God?

Why did Jesus make a clear distinction between those that saw him
then, and believed, meaning throughout his ministry, and us in this
day who believe by faith? They saw, and we didn't with our physical
eyes.

Plus, according to your doctrine of Trinity, if you saw one, you saw
them all.
Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Patrick
2017-01-10 19:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
Earl, while the verses you quote from Philippians are very true, they
are not on topic, and they also do not dispute what Jesus said, when
he said you have seen me, you see the Father.
Give it a break, repete. Scripture says NO man has seen God. Scripture says
"he made himself nothing". End of story. Jesus said "follow me", and no man
would even try is the thought for a second that he was trying to follow
divinity.
Well, Earl, the plain and simple fact is that Jesus said, if you have
seen me you have seen God. Are you calling Jesus a liar? All I did was
quote HIS words.
In the Old testament, Jesus had not yet been born.
Jesus was not active yet.
Post by Robert
Jesus is God,
Excellent.
Perhaps you are trying to get on the same page as all Christians.
Post by Robert
he was divinity and is. And now you have just a peak at
the truth, you are absolutely right in that no man can follow
divinity, that is why mankind by faith must be born again,
That is not the reason why.
But then, you may go ahead and make up more stuff if you like.
Post by Robert
become a
new creature in Christ Jesus, it is also why the Holy Spirit takes up
residence within our spirit, and seals the spirit unto salvation.
Yet, you do not consider the Holy Spirit to be Divinity.
Post by Robert
It
is why mankind, once born again is empowered with the power of God via
the Holy Spirit, plus via our spirits our minds now become renewed in
the things of God. and the sum total of this gives us the reality of
being just like Him.
Do you feel you are just like Jesus now?
Post by Robert
Scripture says, as Jesus Christ is, so are we IN
THIS WORLD.
Perhaps you could share this reference with us.
Post by Robert
Yes, you cannot do it by yourself, and that is what God has been
trying to teach and show you. Not by works lest any man boast.
God is trying to teach me?
Like he teaches you?

unknown
2017-01-09 17:27:01 UTC
Permalink
With trusty digital divination meter in hand, robert holds forth:

Snip
Post by Robert
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
What a hoot, the above blurb about the nature of Christ would be embraced
by a jw. They too distort the person of Christ as not fully God and fully
man, He was just a "representative" of God.
snip
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.

Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.

snip

Of course being fully God and fully man in one undivided nature what of she
who bore Him in her womb? Could she be properly said to be the "God
bearer" to add support to His "fully both undivided" nature?

Unlike the father as God who is spirit, being also fulll man in Christ's
physicl presence, would a graphical representation of the son evoke the "no
graven image" of God?

These were questions that came up in the early years of the church. Like
in Actts, they met in council to decide such matters of faith and
practice.
Robert
2017-01-09 20:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?

Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
astarte
2017-01-09 20:52:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 12:13:46 -0800, Robert snip


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
unknown
2017-01-09 21:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.

The next declaration from him "my lord and God".

Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His death caused
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.

Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".

So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
Robert
2017-01-09 22:54:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.
The next declaration from him "my lord and God".
Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His death caused
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.
Thomas was also a disciple, His divinity was already understood by
some as revealed by the Holy Spirit. The other disciples had already
seen Jesus and what he doubted is what they told him. It was not until
8 days later that He saw Jesus who came right through the walls Where
they were. Why you want to keep reiterating this point is beyond me,
are you having problems with belief.
Post by unknown
Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".
So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
Had you read the scripture I posted in the first place you would have
had an answer to all of this. I do not go by religion or traditions of
men.
unknown
2017-01-09 23:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.
The next declaration from him "my lord and God".
Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His
death caused
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.
Thomas was also a disciple, His divinity was already understood by
some as revealed by the Holy Spirit.
Pentecost and the promised SH was then a future event. He believed because
of the empty tomb and the physical evidence of His body as risen Christ.
Post by Robert
..The other disciples had already
seen Jesus and what he doubted is what they told him. It was not until
8 days later that He saw Jesus who came right through the walls Where
they were. Why you want to keep reiterating this point is beyond me,
ar
All that quite irrelevant to the point of Thomases renewed faith in His
divinity, "my lord and my God". God and man undivided..
you having problems with belief.


No.
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".
So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
Had you read the scripture I posted in the first place you would have
had an answer to all of this. I do not go by religion or traditions of
men.
I did read it, Christ as fully God and fully man undivided confirmed in the
example of Thomas; "my lord and my God".

So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?

Every theory now proposed these 2000 years later is of rligion, even if
only the lone ranger flavor; and exactly invented of man.

The unbroken 2000 year witness; beginning in scripture benchmark, not the
confused mumblings of a lone ranger bible reader with a digital divination
meter with its heavenly wifi connnection.
Robert
2017-01-10 01:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.
The next declaration from him "my lord and God".
Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His
death caused
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.
Thomas was also a disciple, His divinity was already understood by
some as revealed by the Holy Spirit.
Pentecost and the promised SH was then a future event. He believed because
of the empty tomb and the physical evidence of His body as risen Christ.
Whatever SH is. You sure do a poor job of hacking up posts, it also
shows your lack of understanding.

Mat 16:16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the
Son of the living God. 
Mat 16:17  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou,
Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but
my Father which is in heaven.

Well before the death of Christ.

And before the birth of Christ, the promise, then the realization of
the promise spoken of here.

Luk 2:26  And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he
should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 
Luk 2:27  And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the
parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of
the law, 
Luk 2:28  Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 
Luk 2:29  Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace,
according to thy word: 
Luk 2:30  For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 
Luk 2:31  Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 

Now Thomas believed per the scriptures posted, then deleted by you,...

Joh 20:25  The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen
the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the
print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and
thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 
...............
Joh 20:29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have
believed. 

See what you miss by not reading?
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
..The other disciples had already
seen Jesus and what he doubted is what they told him. It was not until
8 days later that He saw Jesus who came right through the walls Where
they were. Why you want to keep reiterating this point is beyond me,
ar
All that quite irrelevant to the point of Thomases renewed faith in His
divinity, "my lord and my God". God and man undivided..
you having problems with belief.
No.
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".
So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
Had you read the scripture I posted in the first place you would have
had an answer to all of this. I do not go by religion or traditions of
men.
I did read it, Christ as fully God and fully man undivided confirmed in the
example of Thomas; "my lord and my God".
So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?
I was speaking of the original post I made, made up mostly of
scripture, and you snipped virtually all of it. Read that, I made it
clear that is what I believed.
Post by unknown
Every theory now proposed these 2000 years later is of rligion, even if
only the lone ranger flavor; and exactly invented of man.
The unbroken 2000 year witness; beginning in scripture benchmark, not the
confused mumblings of a lone ranger bible reader with a digital divination
meter with its heavenly wifi connnection.
Go to my original post, my answer is there, unchanged.

Obviously you are clueless as to what constitutes religion, and what
the difference is between religion and the Good News.

Sadly your mocking ways will come back to haunt you.

Now go back to the original post, scripture there will show you what I
believe.
unknown
2017-01-10 01:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Re: 10's of 1,000's, perhaps 100's of 1,000,s Saw God!
Reply to: Robert
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 17:39:00 -0800
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
alt.bible,
alt.christnet.christianlife,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
Followup to: newsgroups
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.
The next declaration from him "my lord and God".
Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His
death caused
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.
Thomas was also a disciple, His divinity was already understood by
some as revealed by the Holy Spirit.
Pentecost and the promised SH was then a future event. He believed because
of the empty tomb and the physical evidence of His body as risen Christ.
Whatever SH is. You sure do a poor job of hacking up posts, it also
shows your lack of understanding.
Mat 16:16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the
Son of the living God. 
Mat 16:17  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou,
Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but
my Father which is in heaven.
Well before the death of Christ.
And before the birth of Christ, the promise, then the realization of
the promise spoken of here.
Luk 2:26  And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he
should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 
Luk 2:27  And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the
parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of
the law, 
Luk 2:28  Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 
Luk 2:29  Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace,
according to thy word: 
Luk 2:30  For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 
Luk 2:31  Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 
Now Thomas believed per the scriptures posted, then deleted by you,...
Joh 20:25  The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen
the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the
print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and
thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 
...............
Joh 20:29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have
believed. 
See what you miss by not reading?
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
..The other disciples had already
seen Jesus and what he doubted is what they told him. It was not until
8 days later that He saw Jesus who came right through the walls Where
they were. Why you want to keep reiterating this point is beyond me,
ar
All that quite irrelevant to the point of Thomases renewed faith in His
divinity, "my lord and my God". God and man undivided..
you having problems with belief.
No.
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".
So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
Had you read the scripture I posted in the first place you would have
had an answer to all of this. I do not go by religion or traditions of
men.
I did read it, Christ as fully God and fully man undivided confirmed in the
example of Thomas; "my lord and my God".
So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?
I was speaking of the original post I made, made up mostly of
scripture, and you snipped virtually all of it. Read that, I made it
clear that is what I believed.
Went back, nothing there to answer the above question but the Thomas "my
lord and my God" confirmmation of the fully God and fully man undivided
nature of Christ.

So the question stands unanswered. What might be "believed" about some
subsidiary question is not on the table.

A politician often answers some other question when the one before him is
too touching and revealing.
Robert
2017-01-10 03:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Re: 10's of 1,000's, perhaps 100's of 1,000,s Saw God!
Reply to: Robert
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 17:39:00 -0800
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
alt.bible,
alt.christnet.christianlife,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
Followup to: newsgroups
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.
The next declaration from him "my lord and God".
Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His
death caused
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.
Thomas was also a disciple, His divinity was already understood by
some as revealed by the Holy Spirit.
Pentecost and the promised SH was then a future event. He believed because
of the empty tomb and the physical evidence of His body as risen Christ.
Whatever SH is. You sure do a poor job of hacking up posts, it also
shows your lack of understanding.
Mat 16:16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the
Son of the living God. 
Mat 16:17  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou,
Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but
my Father which is in heaven.
Well before the death of Christ.
And before the birth of Christ, the promise, then the realization of
the promise spoken of here.
Luk 2:26  And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he
should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 
Luk 2:27  And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the
parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of
the law, 
Luk 2:28  Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 
Luk 2:29  Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace,
according to thy word: 
Luk 2:30  For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 
Luk 2:31  Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 
Now Thomas believed per the scriptures posted, then deleted by you,...
Joh 20:25  The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen
the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the
print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and
thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 
...............
Joh 20:29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have
believed. 
See what you miss by not reading?
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
..The other disciples had already
seen Jesus and what he doubted is what they told him. It was not until
8 days later that He saw Jesus who came right through the walls Where
they were. Why you want to keep reiterating this point is beyond me,
ar
All that quite irrelevant to the point of Thomases renewed faith in His
divinity, "my lord and my God". God and man undivided..
you having problems with belief.
No.
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".
So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
Had you read the scripture I posted in the first place you would have
had an answer to all of this. I do not go by religion or traditions of
men.
I did read it, Christ as fully God and fully man undivided confirmed in the
example of Thomas; "my lord and my God".
So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?
I was speaking of the original post I made, made up mostly of
scripture, and you snipped virtually all of it. Read that, I made it
clear that is what I believed.
Went back, nothing there to answer the above question but the Thomas "my
lord and my God" confirmmation of the fully God and fully man undivided
nature of Christ.
Well, first off, the resurrected Christ was not man, he was a
bloodless being with holes in his body. His resurrected body was a
redeemed body.
Post by unknown
So the question stands unanswered. What might be "believed" about some
subsidiary question is not on the table.
Jesus said, you see me, you see the Father.
John 14:9; Matt 16:16
Post by unknown
A politician often answers some other question when the one before him is
too touching and revealing.
A politician often asks a question for obfuscation, or as a setup to
something not related.
astarte
2017-01-10 14:29:21 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 19:24:49 -0800, Robert snip
Post by Robert
A politician often asks a question for obfuscation, or as a setup to
something not related.
So, that's where you learned how to do your dance.

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
unknown
2017-01-10 16:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?
We can addd, if another theory what is it?
Robert
2017-01-10 17:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by unknown
So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?
We can addd, if another theory what is it?
I gave you the answer, with a pointer so that you could not miss it.

All you are showing me is that you purposely ignore it.
unknown
2017-01-10 17:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by unknown
So the question stands, who was Christ ; was He fully God and fully man
undivided or is there another theory afoot?
We can addd, if another theory what is it?
I gave you the answer, with a pointer so that you could not miss it.
All you are showing me is that you purposely ignore it.
The "the father and I are one" is part of the scripture support for
trinity,ie. one God 3 persons.

It is support for Christ being fully God and fully man undivided.

It does not support the jw like statement about Christ offered previously
in this thread as "repsentative" etc. from the divine or any such notion.

Noting that the reference is "Jesus" not "christ" almost always when such
jw like theory is suggested. This leaves us as before:

Who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided?
astarte
2017-01-10 14:28:10 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 17:39:00 -0800, Robert snip,
Post by Robert
Now go back to the original post, scripture there will show you what I
believe.
Which of course according to you, is binding on everyone else. Except it
isn't.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
astarte
2017-01-10 00:28:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:54:17 -0800, Robert pouted because someone didn't
follow his mistake. Snip
--
Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
astarte
2017-01-10 00:32:00 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:54:17 -0800, Robert snip, just more conceit.

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
pyotr filipivich
2017-01-10 17:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Servant on 09 Jan 2017 21:24:47 GMT typed in
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
Thomas doubted a risen Christ. When invited to see the marks and place his
hand in His side he believedd.
The next declaration from him "my lord and God".
Christ had already revealed His divinity to the apostles. His death caused
grave doubts among them, the physical evidence changed the mind of a
doubting Thomas.
Any theory making of Christ less then fully God and fully man undivided has
Thomas to deal with. One small bit and all such theories go "poof".
So, who was Christ? Was He fully God and fully man undivided or is there
another theory afoot? One might consult the beginning of John.
It is interesting, that in the first centuries, the Church had to
"prove" that Jesus was human. The idea that he could be a god was
easily acceptable in the culture around them.
Now, the problem is proving that he's God. Because such a notion
doesn't fit the paradigm of the culture around us.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
Patrick
2017-01-09 22:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
What was He then?
Robert
2017-01-10 03:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
What was He then?
Ask him not me, wombs"?
duke
2017-01-10 12:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by Patrick
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
What was He then?
Ask him not me, wombs"?
Silly boy. You know, I know, the world knows that he mistyped a word. Quit
playing like a child.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Robert
2017-01-10 16:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Post by Patrick
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
What was He then?
Ask him not me, wombs"?
Silly boy. You know, I know, the world knows that he mistyped a word. Quit
playing like a child.
the dukester, American-American
Since when does a man have a womb, let alone two?

and you call me a child? And support the ignorance of Patsy at the
same time? Don't they have sex education in RC schools? Or do the
priests do that one on one? <smirk>

Seriously Duke, you should think before you react.
astarte
2017-01-10 16:46:35 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 08:39:59 -0800, Robert nothing new, snip


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
astarte
2017-01-10 14:29:54 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 19:27:02 -0800, Robert wrote:snip



Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."
duke
2017-01-10 12:40:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
But not until after the ascension of Jesus to the Father that the new Christians
came to understand what they had participated in.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Robert
2017-01-10 16:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Robert
Post by unknown
Post by Robert
Joh 20:28  Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! 
Oops, there goes the jw and robert word dance in one stroke, sorry bub.
Thomas addressed He who was fully God and fully man in the confirmation
of His wombs.
His "Wombs"?
Fool, you should have read the scriptures provided. What Thomas
finally recognized is what Jesus was all along, and his words
testified of that.
But not until after the ascension of Jesus to the Father that the new Christians
came to understand what they had participated in.
the dukester, American-American
I can understand why you would think that, and to an extent it is
true, but the simple fact is that the disciples were performing
miracles, casting out demons, and so on, solely based on the words and
authorization of Jesus Christ. They were amazed and shocked at the
power they had from the very beginning of His ministry, plus some
understood because of what the holy spirit revealed to them, as Jesus
said. Yes, they had much to learn, even so.
Jan Tagmier
2017-01-09 21:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Joh 14:7 If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.
Joh 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father?
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26 Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you!
Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe!
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
So you believe that Matthew 3:11 make water baptism unecessary..I
would agree with you that in some cases it would not be required
like that of the thief on the cross, or new believers that are as
yet not a member of a church some where, but in the end don't you
also believe that this would be solely up to the discretion of God ?
Patrick
2017-01-09 22:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Tagmier
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Joh 14:7 If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.
Joh 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father?
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26 Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you!
Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe!
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
So you believe that Matthew 3:11 make water baptism unecessary..I
would agree with you that in some cases it would not be required
like that of the thief on the cross, or new believers that are as
yet not a member of a church some where, but in the end don't you
also believe that this would be solely up to the discretion of God ?
Good answer.
Jan Tagmier
2017-01-10 13:48:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Jan Tagmier
Post by Robert
Many have read this, yet not seen it.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Here is how the Greek to English is clarified;
Joh 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He
has made Him known]. (AMP)
Jesus, "He" has declared Him, made him known. This was a major part of
the work of Christ on earth, he who was sacrificed for the sins of the
whole earth.
Of course I expect many arguments on this and this was near the
beginning of Christ's ministry on the earth. During the course of
Christ's first ministry on earth he said this,...
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life;
no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Joh 14:7 If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would
also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen
Him.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to
see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.
Joh 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a
time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has
seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the
Father?
Now there is much more to this in Chapter 14 for those that care to
see, yet here Jesus clearly states, Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father.
Jesus was authorized to speak this, He was God's representative on
earth and spoke only on the authorization of His Father. He
represented God well, and He also showed the anger of God regarding
the money changers in the temple, tossing over their tables and
running them out of the temple.
Still need convincing, like a JW will? Very near the end of his
ministry on earth with the messages of Good News, Christ said this,...
Joh 20:26 Eight days later His disciples were again in the house, and
Thomas was with them. Jesus came, though they were behind closed
doors, and stood among them and said, Peace to you!
Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see
My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be
faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe!
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you
now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and to be envied
are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to
and trusted and relied on Me.
Yes, ALL the disciples, not just the twelve know fully knew who they
had been living with and following. The rest of the world around
Jerusalem saw God the Father, via Jesus, whether they fully understood
or not.
So we can see now that mankind has seen God since it was an objective
of Jesus to make Him known to all that would listen. God showed
through Jesus Christ many signs, wonders, miracles and healing's.
Raising people from the dead and freeing all who were oppressed of the
enemy.
Jesus here in this last passage also left a message directly to you
and me, when He said, "Blessed and happy and to be envied are those
who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and
trusted and relied on Me."
Notice, he did not say washed with water, but have believed, etc.
So you believe that Matthew 3:11 make water baptism unecessary..I
would agree with you that in some cases it would not be required
like that of the thief on the cross, or new believers that are as
yet not a member of a church some where, but in the end don't you
also believe that this would be solely up to the discretion of God ?
Good answer.
? Do you have a fever ?(jokingly) Thank you Patrick.
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