Discussion:
in the Love of God
(too old to reply)
trw
2005-08-16 12:04:42 UTC
Permalink
the natural man is driven primarily
by pleasure and pain modulation,

"that feels good,
i like that,
gimme more"

"that causes discomfort,
i don't like that,
keep it away"

this is to say, the thoughts and attitudes
engendered by the body of man are generally
centered around the immediate well being
of the body.

these attitudes tend toward survival
of self in its various forms,

personal - familial - communal

not necessarily wrong, until these thoughts
and attitudes dictate a policy whereby one party
forcefully overrides the attainment of well being
that other parties also seek.

for instance, the lion attacks
the hyena to possess the hyena's food,

but when a man attacks another man
to possess the other man's food, he robs
that other man of the same freedoms
that he insists on having for himself,

and in so doing, he errs according to his own esteem.

what we may suggest is that the lions
and hyenas are simply not conscious
of their spirits.

but if they became aware of their spirits,
they too would find themselves residing in
the same conflict that man finds himself.

and asking themselves;

"is it correct to steal food from each other?"

and their spirits telling them that they
were committing crimes all the while the
body telling them to get food and get it now.

and so, we may further suggest that coming to a
realization of one's spirit without a concommittant
mitigation of the natural tendency towards
instinctual survival gives rise to a
consciousness of error that erodes
the fabric of the spirit.

the spirit needs to align with the Love of God.
the natural man needs to perpetuate its life.

in somewhat the same manner that metal
shavings align themselves with a magnetic
field, so, the human spirit must align with God,
and when 'we' prevent this alignment, 'we' suffer.

not a despotic overlord is God

no more than a magnetic field is exerting
a despotic influence over metal shavings.

mind you, i did -not- say,
"God is a magnetic field"

but that physical phenomenon can be
likened to a non-physical phenomena
that we experience in relation to God.

something that you can see is -like-
something that you cannot see.

and we suggest that "God is Love"

and when 'you' fall out
of alignment with "Love"
you suffer.

where the manifestations of suffering are manifold.

that is, difficult to point
at a single thing and say,
"that is suffering"


the conflict which arises amid living
by theft and living in the Love of God
is poisonous to the entire creature.

apparently, upon becoming conscious of
the spirit, man's best resort has been
to invent a disregard for the Love of God.

not cleansing the conscience
but ignoring the transgession.

starving and poisoning the spirit.

what God has invented is the removal of
the sin conciousness through a reasoned
understanding that survival is assured in
the spiritual alignment with the Love of God.

that consciousness of transgression
is dissolved as the transgression
itself is removed.

the conflict is resolved as you discover
that patient endurance feeds you more amply
than smash and grab policies.

we may now suggest that will power is one
attribute of the spirit, and the characteristic
abilities afforded by powers of the will should
enable the proper disciplining of the natural
man so as to render the natural man non-threatening
to neither himself nor his surroundings.

properly guiding the natural man as the vehicle
which interacts directly with the material universe.


how do we quantify will power?
is will power in the food you eat?
can you take a pill of will power?


will power and endurance are connected.
we could suggest that endurance is one
of the nexus points between the
natural man and the spirit man.

it seems correct to suggest that
will power triggers and sparks endurance
and not that endurance sparks will power.

albeit, we may contend that endurance
will become an attribute of the natural
man by virtue of the power of the will
that the spirit has exerted on to it.

youthful exuberance is not the same thing
as endurance, and when youthful exuberance wanes,
oftentimes, the natural man takes a seat on the bench.

and then you need exhortation to dig up that
consciousness of your spirit because that is
where an array of attributes that are beneficial
to your overall well being reside.

the same spiritual consciousness you buried
when it created a conflict in your mind
over indiscrete actions engendered by
the natural man's need to survive.

and our Savior is there
to unlock these doors
in your mind.

and remind you of those good things
you were once ill equipped
to properly employ.

and assist in the proper alignment

of the entire creature

in the Love of God.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:06:15 UTC
Permalink
the natural man is composed of the
physical substance, and the spirit man
can likewise be said to be 'composed'
of some non-physical substance.

the proper alignment of the natural man
with the spirit man offers up peace
and a more joyous life.

non-alignment engenders personal
and physical conflict, sickness,
and premature death.

the Spirit of God, which is the Creator
of all things, is now the Savior of all
things and is able to reconfigure the
alignment between the natural man
and the spirit man.

when in the midst of personal conflict
one cries out to God thru Savior, Jesus,
the spirit of that man is whisked away
and the Spirit of God comes upon
that person and begins to align
the natural man.

as mentioned previously, this non-material
substance can be spoken of in very real terms.

that is, even though this 'substance' will
click no dials on any interferometer, one
may still speak of this substance as if you
were able to hold it in your hands.

and, likewise, given that this 'substance'
would have no associated physical exclusion
principle, 'it' can be said to overlay the
physical substance.

like, two cups may not occupy the
same physical space at the same time,

but, there is no such hindrance to this
non-material substance 'being' in the
same 'place' as a cup made of a ceramic.

and now you get to the funny part;

suppose your 'spirit man' is behaving
independantly of the natural substance man
and the two are in conflict?

for example, one wants to move around
and the other wants to sit in a chair?

and this conflict disturbs the peace in your mind.

obviously, this is an example, and not the
only example, of conflict within the 'spirit'
that translates to a substantive troubling
of the natural man.

there are quite a number of little angles
from which to view this sort of phenomenon

cuz look, the natural man has what amounts
to a 'mind' of its own, as i'm sure you'd agree.

and then there are the obvious conflicts that
the natural man has with the surroundings.
the natural mind has proven quite ingenius
at overcoming these obstacles.

but 'we' are suggesting that there is
a world of obstacles that you can not see.

and your 'spirit' also, can be battered by
these obstacles of which your natural mind
cannot readily become aware.

so, as before i suggested that the 'spirit'
may run thru bodily physical roadblocks, and
in so doing, bring a harm on the body, just so,
the roadblocks in your physical manifestation
may very well inhibit an optimal performance
of the spiritual circulatory apparatus, and
bring a malignancy to the spirit.

and, the spirit man slowly kills the natural man,
because as conflict develops, the spirit man is
going to break down these road blocks that the
natural man is setting up, only those road blocks
are become integral facets of the natural man,
and so, as the road blocks are disregarded,
the physical manifestation is weakened and
loses its integrity and sickens and 'dies'.

and 'they' really are at war with
each other and 'you' are the loser.

that is, it's a war of attrition and your body
takes hits and your spirit takes hits and gradually,
they both are arriving at death's doorway.

and your 'spirit' does -not- manage to escape
in some pristine state, but rather, has taken
a beating and been transformed in to a troubled
wretch that will not rise from the
ashes of the grave.

and now you actually really and truly
are in need of salvage and salvation
and outright remanufacture.

and you cry out to God.

if you're lucky, the first thing God does is
to, simultaneously, remove your spirit and
insert the Spirit of Christ, your Savior.

and for a time, your spirit is a witness
to the remanufacture of your natural man
by the Spirit of Christ.

the natural man is being renewed mentally and physically.

and, perhaps, as the natural man is renewed,
thru Christ, the spirit man is led back into
a union with this natural man and the
two begin to walk as one.

and physical pathways are
becoming a sea of green lights.

and glimpsing the harmony between spirit
and natural builds a character that
is cherished by God.

so, we suggest to you that The Holy Spirit,
as offered to man thru the blood of Christ,
works at realigning you with "Love"

and the acceptance of Christ's Blood as the 'reckoning'
for your improper alignment opens the door for God
to fully enter into your home and have supper with you.

where blood is the physical manifestation thru
which God breathes Life to 'your' 'spirit'

and Christ's Blood is that doorway
thru which God passed thru
the material veil.

a simple Faith.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:08:53 UTC
Permalink
we suggest that 'the law' is spiritual

'the law' is filled with many physical things,
that is, there are many physical things
with associated laws or statutes.

Moses veiled his face like a woman,
because Moses' face shone like light
was pouring from it.

Paul suggests that 'the law'
is covered in a veil.

Paul refers to law about oxen
as if it refers to a human being.

the flesh is a veil

Paul says the 'flesh mind'
cannot comprehend 'the law'

'the law' talks about the flesh
and material things a lot.

Jesus says; "beware of leavening"
as if this refers to "teachings"

those around Jesus think he's talking
about bread until he tells them that
he means "teachings"

how is your image of God portrayed
by physical material things?

how do you know when you are honoring
or elevating some other thing as God?

if God is not concerned for oxen
as they tread out grain, but man

why is 'the law' concerned with modesty?

what does uncoverning nakedness
have to do with God?

does God have 'weakness?'

Paul says the 'weakness of God'
surpasses man's strength

---
1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is
wiser than men, and the weakness
of God is stronger than men.
---

psalmist says God is 'clothed'
in strength and righteousness

---
Psalm 65:6
Who established the mountains by
strength, Being clothed with power;
---
see also[Psalm 93:1-2 Psalm 104:1-2]


what is God's 'weakness'?

-who- could rightly call it 'weakness'?

just entertaining ideas,

for a moment, let's consider
Justice and Mercy separately.

Justice seems hard and fast and
maybe even a 'strong' attribute,
unrelenting in nature.

while Mercy could be construed
as a, somewhat more docile, even
'weak' and relenting quality,

-if- such a thing could be
said of a quality of God.

but look here;

---
James 2:13
For judgment is without mercy to
the one who has shown no mercy.
Mercy triumphs over judgment.
---

it's sort of like Justice guards and
protects Mercy as -if- Mercy were an
underlying 'weak' attribute, but that
this Mercy is the quality which
demonstrates Love.

Justice demands that you walk in Love,

Mercy shows Love and forgives shortfall,

and the two,
Justice and Mercy,
are United in Christ.

so, basically, -we-, human beings, would
never be able to consider a more docile
attribute of God as a 'shortfall'

so, when, and -if- we were to use the
term "weak" with referrence to God,
it would only be with respect to
our understanding of Mercy as an
attribute that is able to relent
and give, whereas Perfect Justice
-would- result in the inability of
-any- thing, even God's perfect Creation,
from ever being able to stand up to the
exacting signature which -is-
The Love which -is- God,

and so, this Mercy,

is an attribute, hidden in God,
which enables the demonstration
of God's Love even in the face
of Perfect Justice.

Perfect Justice which demands
that Love not be broken.

Mercy clearly shows that
YHWH is God and there is
no other God.

Mercy and Justice

Mercy and Justice -must- both
operate to perpetuate Love.

without 'the other' neither
will stand on its own as Love.

and 'the law' is an embodiment of Love.

the 'veil' does not cover the words,
but human understanding is dulled by
the demands of the flesh.

for some, the Union of Mercy and Justice
in Jesus Christ's life, death, burial and
resurrection is a visual object lesson
that YHWH -is- God, and there can be
no other God.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:09:49 UTC
Permalink
# ---
# 1 Corinthians 1:25
# Because the foolishness of God is
# wiser than men, and the weakness
# of God is stronger than men.
# ---

# for a moment, let's consider
# Justice and Mercy separately.

and obviously, Justice and Mercy
are not in opposition to each other,
Justice and Mercy are complementary.

and, the design will accomplish that
which Justice demands, and that is,
that you walk in Love, and show mercy.

like, Justice marches you towards Love,
and if and when you fall down on your way,
Mercy lifts you back up and sets you on
your feet and encourages you to
press on towards Love.

and that is the expected outcome,

that you reach that Love where you
no longer conflict with Justice
in any manner.

and Mercy never disappears,
because Mercy is a fundamental
component of Love, as is Justice.

so, we only -speak- of
'them' in isolation.

in God, 'they' are Love.


Mercy does not reside within
the material nature, but YHWH
can be every bit as strict and
harsh as an unforgiving
material nature.

as Love, YHWH is the only
True source of Mercy, but
in the demand for Justice
there is no wavering.

matter knows no forgiveness.
you can not reason with matter.
when you fall from a great height,
your bones will be crushed.

and without ever having fallen,
you know with a surety that
to walk off a high place,
you risk certain death,
and so, you refrain.

if you placed this much certainty
in the words of your God, you would
tread lightly about the serpent's tail.

but your God is more sure than
a nickel plated revolver, and
not one to be trifled with.

it seems harsh, but you forget where you are,

the material nature can not forgive,
it is not possible for the material nature
to forgive, forgiveness does not reside within
the material nature, mercy does not live there.

also, no injustice nor ill manner
reside within YHWH, but all manners
of YHWH are perfect towards Life.

in fact, a split weight is abhorent to YHWH.

you may not see your bones being crushed,
in an instant, under the weight of your
own unequal balances, your own merciless
detachment from Love, but you do gather
in the deadly stain and none can remedy.

you do see your lives being torn from you.

you do see your vital force ebbing away.

you walk in a manner in which YHWH can not
look upon nor take part, and thereby, you
evict Life from your premises.

you invite sickness and every
ill manner upon yourselves.

you do forsake that fountain of Living Waters

and you do, make attempts at fashioning
counterfeits which hold no water at all.

and Mercy does not dwell in your midst.

not even a token.

so, what hope is there?

same as ever,
your hope resides within
the very Mercy which is YHWH.

YHWH swallowed whole that harsh
and cruel reward that the human
race has amassed for itself.

the material nature has no mercy
and has no forgiveness, and as such
the entire human race may as well
be anihilate.

but YHWH, your Creator, your firmness,
your steady and unmovable anchor, took
the full brunt of an unforgiving nature
in a cup filled with blood, drank it down
to the dregs, and completed your destiny.

and in an act of untold kindness,

offers you Mercy.

accept this life.

so, you accept God's Mercy, so what?

first, recognize that this mercy is not
suggesting that you pursue the manner
that would lead to death while expecting
God to perpetuate your life from within
this miserable state.

this mercy is letting you see that
YHWH is Life and the source of all
things good, and then leading you
by the hand in to a fullness that
is beyond your ability to recognize
and realize for yourself.

God is not picking at every little detail
that distances you from God, and suggesting
that this separation can never be overcome.

yes, there is a distinction

you are not God but you may become like God.

so now, how do you seek this good for
yourself while simultaneously rooting
out your self centered want?

how do you seek to be like God without
remaining exactly like who you already are?
spiralling in to the abyss.

God will accomplish a thing for you,
and the only way you can fully appreciate
this is by you doing something for God.

the goal is that you lack nothing and
attain that full stature of God in you,

and the full stature of God is not a Being
who makes perpetual requests for favors but
One who perpetually seeks the Good for "the other"

you want to learn how
to dance on the head
of a pin.

and so, back to rudiments for a moment;

as you would see progression,
you would seem to get something
for something, something from God
in return for something from you,

but the something that you offer up to God
for that something in return from God, is
something that God gave you in the first
place, and further blessing will be
predicated upon your rightly accepting
and administering a previous blessing.

"well, i 'merited' some good thing
by virtue of my proper and useful
acceptance of some thing that i
could never have merited."

yeah, sure, fine.

you made a progression,

cock-a-doodle-do,

oops, now you slipped back under the water.

just remember, even when
you almost start to forget,


God is


and you do not proceed towards praise
from human beings, even yourself.

the way God praises you is by laying
another new unmerited blessing upon you
which draws you ever closer to God's
own personal identification.

God sees you in appreciation of God's
benevolence and mercy, in thanksgiving
and praise of God, and steps closer to you
with a furtherance of that understanding
of which you could never gain access by
your desire to find out.

this is your substance.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:11:09 UTC
Permalink
# this mercy is letting you see that
# YHWH is Life and the source of all
# things good, and then leading you
# by the hand in to a fullness that
# is beyond your ability to recognize
# and realize for yourself.
# God is not picking at every little detail
# that distances you from God, and suggesting
# that this separation can never be overcome.

now you get in to all these bits about
how God knows the heart and mind of the
human beings and you cannot know the
hearts and minds of each other.

human beings are not able to empathize
in a direct manner with each other.

you get this problem set up whereby
you only can know yourself and then
you only can use that measuring wand
to judge everyone else but even your
self knowledge tends towards an
incomplete understanding.

and situations like these arise;

you pick at shortfall in everyone else
that you fail to see in your own self.

obvious blindness.

no mercy

you imagine that everyone else has
the same shortfall or trouble that
you presently experience, and you let
yourself off the hook and even seek
to magnify that sense of shortfall
in other people so you can feel more
justified in letting yourself
off the hook.

and then, when that sense of your shortfall
is firmly implanted within other people, you
go back to judging them for carrying out a
thing which you consider to be a wrong in
everyone else except your own self.

selective vision; you see what
you want to see and not what
you don't want to see, and you
don't know what you want to see,
still resembles blindness.

no mercy

you damn yourself in shortfall and
believe that you are uniquely and
tragically flawed, essentially removing
all possibility of empathic understanding
of anyone else, because you have assigned
yourself as un-like anyone else in your
own special shortfall.

total internal reflection.
in this case, seems like
another form of blindness.

no mercy

there may be more such
situations but we'll
stop at these.

so, if these are working in some
manner within the lives of all
human beings, the overall effect
can be nothing but damaging.

it cannot, yet, even be relevant to suggest
that people treat other people the way
they would like to be treated themselves
when they are not even able to recognize
how they would like to be treated.

the fact, is, that you do, already,
treat other people in the very
manner that you treat your self.

and you have no mercy on yourselves,
until you do but you don't and you are
trapped in this quagmire where you can
show youself a false sense of mercy at
the cost of condemning other people
for your own special offense.

a quilting bee of patchwork justifications.

so, God -tells- you that such
a thing as mercy is possible.

and, at first, that's all you have to go on.

mercy exists.

long story short,

as God's cleanses your consciousness
of separatory shortfall, you can begin
to see other people in that same light.

now God is showing you mercy, and you
can add that to your idea that something
such as mercy may exist.

now you see that mercy does exist.

and with an increase in mercy,

...peace walks in as well.

real peace, not a bellicose cry for a
cessation of open hostilities so you
can go right back in to condemnation.

and like charity, which begins
in the household of God, the
apple of your peace can
feed a multitude.

walk in that.

mercy
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:13:35 UTC
Permalink
you weren't created to walk under
the dictates of a forced hand.

you were created
to walk in a manner befitting
the children of God, of your
own volition.

you were created to be a
stone in the Temple of God.

not speculating from a great distance.


baby sitters crutches and braces
are -not- the dictator. these things
are to assist you in walking in a
manner befitting your potential
until time when you are able to
walk in such a manner without
such assistance.


you really end up in a whirlwind.


you have this place in you where you like
being told what to do, you take comfort
in being shown the way and led by the hand,

but you don't like being forced,
because this is unpleasant to you.

so, you have the existing conditions,
you and your surroundings, which are
really forcing your hand and dictating
policy to you,

but you don't _recognize_ -that-
as a "burdensome overlord"

you take on 'prima facia' evidence that
the babby sitters, crutches and braces
are the "burdensome overlord."

...i like 'prima facia' it means
'at first glance,'.. thought i'd like
to fit it into a sentence...


but see, it's the crutches and
baby sitters that will support
you until you can walk amidst the
"burdensome overlord" and not have
your unique identity crushed
in to the dust.


you -think-, that if you can only walk
'freely' as the existing conditions
would have you walk, that you will
be 'free' and unencumbered by
a 'burdensome overlord.'

little realizing that it is the
existing conditions that -becomes-
the 'burdensome overlord.'


you -think- that the baby sitter and
the crutches are burdensome to you
and restrictive to your 'freedom'

little realizing that you -need-
them to free you up from the whimsical
dictates of the existing conditions.

all we say is that before Christ,

this clarity of vision is confused by
your mistrust and disbelief of anything
that seems to run contrary to your first
glance and subsequent pronouncement of
God and God's baby sitters and crutches
as the burdensome overlord,

and now, after Christ, you can see
more clearly who and what becomes the
burdensome overlord and more effectively
use the crutches as an assist without
these bringing you a great discomfort.

a discomfort you associate with
getting and or not getting
what you want.

where your 'wants' are manipulated
by the burdensome overlord, which
-are- the existing conditions.

of course, the creation is good,
in fact, the stuff itself is -not-
conscious, and so, one cannot attribute
an 'evilness' to the composition.

it's when you seem to choose to follow -its-
dictates that you will recognize how unforgiving
and merciless an unconscious blade of grass can be.

it doesn't care one little bit -why-

it's going to pull you into a potential energy well.

the gaping unquenchable jaws of the grave.

our olde friend sheol.



and look, plain and simple,

ONLY God has the ability to memorialize
your temporal existance.

-you- will not lift your self out of the grave.

you -can- die.
you -will- die.

if there be any hope for your continuance,
it lies in the hands of God and none other.

and Christ is our mediation
thru the veil of the flesh.

cuz guess what?

that is why you are created.

to Live

in God with God and as God.

all the cupcakes in the world don't
add up to the dust beneath one fingernail.

not even close.

which is all part of the punchline;

cuz like, most of us die with
a zero balance in our account
with the Almighty.

perhaps even in debt.

so, what exactly is there to perpetuate?

an anihilated nothingness?

which is redundant, but
just plain nowhere,.. man.

and even those of us who would
lay claim to -some- positive
balance with God,

-our- -only- hope -remains- in God.

in Christ and the Power
of his resurrection.

that is -our- hope for those
who have -any- hope at all.

for those whose treasures are
the meaningless baubles which
excite the temporal man,

we go trite and say;

that didn't purchase the breath
it takes to tally its value.

no, there's nothing wrong with nice things,

just imagine you spent your entire
life perfecting a pair of wings
to glide from housetop to housetop

and felt you had them down pat,

and then a great big jet flies
past you and you sit there, stunned,

"wow, my whole life's work doesn't
even remotely compare to that thing."

well, just consider that your potential
Spirit Man is like an intergalactic Starship

and you're up there piddling
with your crop duster.

and you -think- your crop duster
is the measure of all things.

see what i mean?

and then some quick witted
smart aleck might pipe up and say;

"well, the crop duster is best suited
for -its- task while the Starship may
be better suited for some other task."

sure, but certainly, first, the crop
duster is -not- the measure of all things,

before you get all stranged
out on spaceships, you can't
string a plumb line across God.
that wuz just an example.


and whose task?

and then you may also consider
that showing yourself faithful
in a very small thing leads to
be trusted as faithful in
larger things.

and you can see how your stewardship
of your own body is -important-,
albeit, not the measure of all things.

and you are the 'God' of your own body
while God creates that new person in
-you- that is the Image of God.

you discipline the flesh as God
leads you in to the discipline
of your spirit.

and, with some diligence,
you make -those- two as one.

and so, you don't present
a conflicted image to God,
yourself or the world.

and then you can say
you've learned something.

and so, you can learn things,
by direct example in the flesh,
that -are- 'spiritual virtues'
and of significant value for
your embryonic Spirit Man
planted within you.

and you're still just beginning
to scratch the surface.

and this 'learning' is not just that
you claim to know these things, but
that you do these things in
actual practice.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:19:35 UTC
Permalink
an other angle,

you have this tiny speck of
what we'll loosely describe
as your identity.

and you place that identity into objects.

objects that have no sense
of the identity which
you are giving them.


.......look that way--->


you practically change places with the chair.

you become the inanimate blob
inhabitting a space that directs
the reality of the given set
of circumstances.


and now, when you leave the chair,
it has captured your identity and,
for you, anyone who sits there takes
on your personalized attribution.


so, you may find yourself wanting
to stand guard over the chair so
that no one can take your place
and rob you of your identity.


and now, you either say;

"my identity is locked in the
chair and i don't want anyone
else to have it."

or;

"no one really did take possession
of the identity that i ceded to
the chair of my own free will."


no one, who had no identity
of [his] own, now has yours.


and you're completely objectified again.


only now, you're tied to a chair
that has no real identity looking
for your self in other objects
that have no real identity either.


you've got one eye on an empty chair
and the other eye is looking for
no one, who has run off with
your identity.


and you get stuck carrying around
this false persona who is a multiplex
aggregate of objectified traits.


but that's all olde news to you.


where are you now?


up from the minutia there
arise some funny bits.

an obvious one;

the erection of a communal
totem that presumably best
describes the ceded identities
of a given group of people.

but we already know that the existing
conditions describe in people this sense
of ownership and the need to possess
objects that placate the sense of
alienation to self,

coupled with this desire to lay
claim to the identities which we
feel we ceded to the existing
conditions in the first place.


so, you turn over your individuality
to a group ethos that appears to
possess all the things which you
crave for yourself but of which
you feel impoverished.

and then, the group ethos becomes your identity.

and your objectification is complete.

you now exist for the sole
purpose of serving the totem.

leaving much more than a bowl of rice
for a momentary identification with
the objectified composite persona
which sits in your chair.

never truly enjoying the 'freedoms'
that you'd like to think the totem
represents and slowly realizing that
the totem actually represents your
total objectification and loss
of personal liberties.

developing in you this sense of
rebellion from the group ethos
and a complete alienation from self.

giving birth to iconoclasts who seek
to rip fame and fortune from their
perches in your temples of idolatry.


which proves meaningless, because
they will immediately stand themselves
back up on their perches representative
of the covetous desire to retain that
thing you never truly possessed
in the first place.


intimate knowledge of God

personal uniqueness

Love


these things which God's Spirit is


these things which man's
totem can never be.

man's totem is not even alive.

it is the signatory
representation of his
alienation from God.

----
Micah 4:4-5
Ezekiel 8:1-3
----

uh, did you know, that when YHWH
was "King" in Israel, there was no
such thing as a "royal" lineage?

no particularly "special" people
who were gooder or better than
anyone else?

God doesn't die, there's
no need to set up any sort
of dynastic succession.

and those people kept erecting
that totem to their own empty
chair, while God is sitting right
there amidst the Mercy Seat.

"you named -me- the burdensome overlord
while you bowed to your own tyrannical rule"

"this after i yanked you -out-
of slavery to the status quo
with a strong hand."

they re-enslaved themselves
because they didn't believe
freedom was possible.

they didn't believe God
could give them rest.

and so, God chased them
around with a sword instead.

out of the frying pan and
in to the furnace of affliction.

the pretense of man's totem is
more reprehensible that slavery
to the status quo.

a pretend freedom for some
on the backs of those who
carry the empty chair.


and like the seed that fell in amongst
the briar patch or sticker bushes,

"the cares of this world
choked off the growth"

and on the rocks;

"the heat of controversy
anihilated the growth"

the one bowed to the status quo
and the other bowed to peer pressures.

because the slavery to the world was
more comfortable than a freedom that
required a perceived element of risk.


but we have continued hope for your
progression towards Christ, and
and the elimination of anything
that would stand itself in your way.


look here below,

emphasize these things which relate
to the aforementioned problems
associated with the status quo
and personal identity;

God makes people "kings"
and "priests" and gives
them a "new name" which
only they know.

what is a name?

a device for personal identification.

by assigning you a new name which
only you know, you are granted a
personal identity which is
unique to yourself.

by making you a king and a priest
you are given personal authority
and responsibility coupled with
the necessary understandings and
wisdoms necessary to meld with God
in unity with no self centered
attitudes which bring on schism.

you'll see below that God is the
Temple willed to mankind thru Christ
and you are a component of that Temple.

you'll see that God has a personal
identification and is unique, writes
that upon you thru Christ, and sets
you apart as unique while declaring
you a component of the Body of Christ,
which is God's Temple, which is God.

long story short;

you 'serve' God by fulfilling your
potential and administering that
potential to each other.

you don't cede your identity
to the existing conditions,
and an imaginary group ethos,

you fulfill your potential in
the service of the Body of Christ
of which you are a vital component.

---
Revelation 5:9-10, 19:12, 2:17,
3:12, 21:22, 1:6, 7:15-17
---
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:20:47 UTC
Permalink
----
Jonah 2:7-9

"When my life was ebbing away,
I remembered you, YHWH,
and my prayer rose to you,
to your holy temple.

"Those who cling to worthless idols
forfeit the grace that could be theirs.
But I, with a song of thanksgiving,
will sacrifice to you.

What I have vowed I will make good.

Salvation comes from YHWH."
----

the "difference" between YHWH
and Jesus of Nazareth is
a subtle one.

while YHWH spoke thru the Mercy Seat,
atop the ark of the covenant, the wooden ark
overlayed in gold made no contribution
to the speech emanating forth.

as YHWH conceived in Mary

the fullness of Deity came to dwell bodily
in Jesus and was Jesus, but, Jesus was -not-
a wooden ark which offered no contribution
of its own.

no, Jesus had something that all human beings
have and no wooden arks have, and that is
the neo-cortex and human mind.

the human mind of Jesus came in to complete
subjection and full agreement with the
personal God which is the Living God
which is YHWH.

giving Jesus that perfect and substantial
Faith thru intimate personalized knowledge.

the human mind of Jesus became an identical
representation of the personalized Living God

and the Holy Spirit, which conceived in Mary,
so identified with the human mind that was born
that the subsequent indwelling was received
with a hearty declaration from God,

"This is My Son, in Whom i am well pleased"

the mind of Jesus, conceived by the Holy Spirit
in the human being, became an exact representational
Image of the Mind of God, which no thing has ever seen
or fully understood, and when the overlay was sealed
by the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the symbolic
death burial and resurrection of the flesh,
no conflict was brought in to question.

that is, the mind of Jesus, birthed in the human being
by the Holy Spirit was a representational Identity
to the Holy Spirit who came to rest
upon the man's shoulders.

the 'two' were essentially identical,
and, as One, the Faith had no bounds
nor overshadowing even to the defeat of death.

now, -we-, the human beings, who are born of Adam,
see Jesus, that exact representation and Image of God,
as the doorway thru which -we- can become severely
United with God, as was intended from the beginning.

we could never identify with, or
thru, a wooden ark overlayed in Gold.

but we can commune directly with the human character
of Jesus, which has risen above mortallity, and dwells
within the unapproachable Light which is God's Presence.

that is -our- Saving Grace.

Identifying with the Presence.

at Peace

# no, Jesus had something that all human beings
# have and no wooden arks have, and that is
# the neo-cortex and human mind.

of course, Jesus, while in the flesh,
before the resurrection, ascension
and Glorification, like all human beings,
had a brain stem, that "ancient serpent"
with which to contend.

yes, the brain stem is said to bear
a striking resemblance to the
brain of a reptile.

and this portion of the brain
has very simple motivations,

among these are, nourishment, preservation
of life and protection of personal space.

Jesus, of course, was confronted with all of these.

we see an instance where a Tempter
called Jesus aside and questioned
these three;

"make these stones bread"

"throw yourself from the roof"

"all of these cities will i give you"

Jesus proved himself the master of his own
"ancient serpent" when he responded to these
confrontations with a pure reliance upon God.

Jesus' provision and safety was assured
through his all sufficient Faith.

now, we all have this ancient serpent to confront.

YHWH told Cain;

[excerpted paraphrase]

"sin is crouched by the door but you can master it"

and likewise, we all must
"rule over" and "master"
our brain stems.

with reliance upon God.

no, this doesn't suggest that you
toss yourself under the wheels of a bus
to prove that you have overcome the
instinct for self preservation,

it merely says that you, as human in
the image and likeness of your Creator,
are called to a higher set of purposes
which supercede selfish ambitions.

yes, we believe that Tempter is actual
but we also cite our own "ancient serpent"
in our own brains.

Jesus was master of his,

and you should be master of yours.

rely on God and do your part.


# Jesus proved himself the master of his own
# "ancient serpent" when he responded to these
# confrontations with a pure reliance upon God.

obviously self preservation
is not 'evil' in and of itself.

for God and man the point at which
one's own desire for self preservation
encroaches upon other's self preservation
and 'freedoms' is the point at which 'he'
is at a variance with "love" and so, at
variance with God, and we generally call
this "sin".

in the little societies man has set up,
the communities who group themselves together
under 'law' agree that each citizen is
allowed life and free space.

that is, by consensus, we cede each other
the right to be alive and to have free space.

and when we find individuals among us who
won't agree that each person is so allowed,
we call them "outlaw" and suggest that
they are living outside of the law.

is essence, the state institutes
a behavior that resembles "love"

it is true that the state is not able
to place "love" -in- anyone but has given
itself the ability to make each agree
to allow each other certain rights
and freedoms.

and so, if, while seeking your own self preservation
and free space, you infringe upon everyone else's
identical right, you fall out of love and break the law.

individually and in groups.

heaven forbid you should make the gods angry.

maybe you can agree that the 'higher powers'
haven't gone anywhere, that is, they haven't
disappeared from this earthly realm.

once again, the state probably isn't able to open
your eyes to the presence of the higher powers, but
the state can institute coded behaviors anyway.

well, it can and it does.

whatever 'it' is.


# no, this doesn't suggest that you
# toss yourself under the wheels of a bus
# to prove that you have overcome the
# instinct for self preservation,
# it merely says that you, as human in
# the image and likeness of your Creator,
# are called to a higher set of purposes
# which supercede selfish ambitions.


so 'self preservation' is a 'selfish ambition'?

well, yes, it is, that's exactly what it is.

"it's desire is for you"

and so, when you look to the benefit of others
and not just your own benefit, you cross over
into this land of 'good deeds' which prove
your love for and allegiance with God.

and, as you are proving this
even to yourself, your Faith grows.

mind you, -our- Faith is -not- 'blind'

no, we know the God in whom we trust.

and doing as we know is our aim.

mind you, once again, the state is not able
to decree this aim. the state can only decree
that you don't hurt each other. the state cannot
decree that you love each other beyond this point.


# and so, if, while seeking your own self preservation
# and free space, you infringe upon everyone else's
# identical right, you fall out of love and break the law.
# individually and in groups.
# heaven forbid you should make the 'gods' angry.
# maybe you can agree that the 'higher powers'
# haven't gone anywhere, that is, they haven't
# disappeared from this earthly realm.


you'd figure it was also obvious that a state can
become corrupted and hold up a favored class for
which it writes decrees to preserve the life and
well being of only that preferred class above all others.

but we understand that the Idea of Statehood is a
Divine one, and also, that the heavenly realms do,
in fact, pay attention to the State in the hands of man.

and so, your understanding of the rights mandated
to all people thru agreement, is also a responsibility
to see that the rights of certain classes are never
infringed upon by a state in itself.

lest THE State itself become annoyed
and strip away your veneer of Sovereignty.

cuz it can and has and will continue.

be aware.


# once again, the state probably isn't able to open
# your eyes to the presence of the higher powers, but
# the state can institute coded behaviors anyway.
# well, it can and it does.
# whatever 'it' is.


mind you, it's probably just as obvious that some
class of people cannot simply see a personal lack
and suggest that they are owed some sort of equality
of ownership simply because they feel they want that
equality. that could be construed as a subtle
form of thievery.

God will deal with the gluttonous
in God's own inimitable fashion.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-16 12:18:49 UTC
Permalink
so, anyway, supposedly,
to some people, the space
between people anihilates
them all.

supposedly, this is because, you
immediately become an object in
other people's sight.

and then, you begin to see yourself
as an object until you slowly declare
yourself as an object.

you're not a person any more, you're
the object whose identity is dictated
to you by the fact that there are other
people who first see you in the same manner
in which they see a table or a chair or
an apple tree or a water fountain or a
paper cup, and you receive signals
as to how you are seen and
behave accordingly.


...i was gunna include 'garbage can'
but nobody uses garbage cans anymore.


and then you're seen according to your
usefulness in carrying out tasks and
achieving ends.

you're a shovel you're
a rake you're a hand grenade.

and the other people are all
just objects in your sight.

and they behave as if they are objects.

you have ceased to exist.

make yourself useful...

you are obsolete...

oh, go ahead and convince yourself
that you don't objectify everything
and everyone but you'll find in a
very real way, that you are bound
to do just this.


and then someone else can come along and say;

it's the space between people that
gives them all unique identites.

the identification of similarity
characterizes 'the other' as detached
and dissimilar from the observer.

'the other' is like you but not you

you need to know what you
are and what you are not.


and now your little conflict is in place.


define yourself before the
world defines you for you.


but you're already in the process
of defining the world and they you.


you define them as objects


how will you define yourself
in any different manner?


certainly you don't want to sit there
and claim that your love for strawberry
iced cream is a defining attribute.


so you're stuck saying;

"i draw maps"

and you say this because you're
not a very good tap dancer.


so basically, you've got the world defining
you as an object, you defining yourself as
an object, a natural environment composed
of objects, some burdensome overlords
who'd like to keep you as an object,


and this tiny voice inside you
that claims it isn't an object.


who else or what else anywhere will
agree with that tiny voice and tell
you that you are not an object?


what is that tiny voice?

isn't it the same voice that
desribes you and everyone
else as objects?


or do you have two tiny voices?


one who objectifies all things and
one buried under a mountain of rubble?


maybe there's only one you and also
some hideous reverberation like a
hand grenade in a steel container
ripping you to bits, and leaving
you buried under a pile of rubble.


who's gunna dig you out
from under all that rubble
and reconfigure your True Self?

One who is not an object, of course.

One to whom you can not
offer up anything in return.

therefore, One to whom you
can not become an object.


the One who sees you.

the One who can show you.

the One who knows you.

the One who loves you.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 10:39:42 UTC
Permalink
it's not an unheard of notion;

like;

the Kingdom of God is in your midst
-and- in a faraway country

and your desire is for your 'midst'
to align with the faraway country.

and so, 'on earth as in 'heaven''

and Jesus -did- go off to a farway country
when he disappeared upon his ascension

that same 'faraway country' where he had known
Glory in God even before all of Creation.

but he also, -did- send back that Paracletos
to be 'in your midst' again, just as Jesus
was in the midst of his material element.

but even that is still a shadow.

as a full manifestation of Christ on earth
is just as sure as the sun rising in
the east every morning.

and for you, that is sure enough.

but now, -you- are in this world and
Christ is in this world thru -you-
under the auspices of that Paracletos.

but what's also funny is that Jesus Christ
represents that "new heavens and new earth
wherein righteousness will dwell."

because righteousness did, in fact,
dwell in Jesus Christ, and therefore,
in the world and on the earth and
under the earth and also, as ever was,
in the inner regions where no physical
man may enter in.

but even -that- was a shadow.

for when 'heaven' and earth become an identical place

there will be no need for anyone to say;

"know YHWH"

or

"come to Christ"

because all will know God

and God will fully inhabit a dwelling

not made by the hand of mankind

and very beautiful in our eyes.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 10:41:30 UTC
Permalink
so, the Love which is God
is True Light and the
only source of Life.

it is not a conscious effort
on the part of God that anything
that steps away from that
source has no life.

that which runs contrary to God
-must- die, -not- as a punishment,
but as a fact of reality.

very much -like- a lightbulb
in a lamp provides no light when
unplugged from the wall socket.

there is no choosing involved here,

unplug the lamp, no light.

unplug from God, no life.

but remember for a second,

although this happens very fast
in our little -likeness-, when
you unplug a lamp from the wall
socket, the light remains on for
a fraction of a second as it 'turns off'

if you could take a high speed
film of it and slow it down a bit
you'd see the light slowly turn
off -after- the lamp was unplugged.

so, -like- that, human beings don't
just drop to the ground immediately
when they are unplugged from God.

at any rate, -this- situation is WHY Jesus.

WHY the blood

WHY the Cross

we -all- became/become unplugged from God

in part -from- birth -as- children of "Adam"
and in part, -after- birth because we just
remain in that unplugged state by our
own material nature which is, in fact,
predisposed to inanimate death.

look, "Adam" was formed by God and
God breathed the breath of life
into "Adam's" nostrils.

when "Adam" became unplugged -he-
began to die like our lightbulb
who slowly shuts off after you
unplug it from the wall socket,

-but- in a sense,

"Adam and Eve" were enabled to pass
on -that- temporary life to the
flesh thru conception and child birth.

so, -we- get -that- temporary light of life
from our parents and ostensibly from "Adam"

but -that- 'life' is essentially
born as if it were already unplugged
and dieing out, in -likeness- to
our lightbulb friend.

we human beings born of "Adam" are not
exactly like "Adam", in that God did not
directly breathe the breath of life
into us, but we inherited a life
already in decay -from- "Adam"

sure, we have a faint flicker -of-
the breath of life, but -this- we
get from "Adam" along with a
predisposed unplugged condition.

and without going into fine detail
about Jesus and -that- Blood right now,
[i'll get back to that later]

in essence, -that-
set of actions
-by- God

conception-life-crucifixion
blood spillage-burial
and resurrection

make it possible for GOD
to plug -us- back in to Life.

it is -not- some human appeasement
ceremony invented by human beings
to please an unwavering God,

it -is- an action of Love provided
by God to plug us back in while
we were yet dead.

and not only us, but many things,
the earth itself included.

the earth which suffered loss as well
from "Adam's conscious yank on the plug.

and...
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 10:43:40 UTC
Permalink
just a quick terminological bit;

this concerns "spirit"

"the breath of life" and
"The Holy Spirit" are not
exactly identical.

while "the breath of life" was breathed
into "Adam" by God and is therefore
an animating "spirit" from God,

"the breath of life" does not
represent "The Mind of Christ"
or personality structure of God.

and so, while it may be stated that
this "spirit", which is an animating
"life force", has God as its ultimate
source, we do not suggest that this
animating life force is God's
own personality structure.

it's -sort- of like, as if this;

it's -like- as if "the breath of life"
is God's bloodstream, and imparted to
the material, it makes material alive,
but, when it is removed from the circulating
Presence of God's own Life -it- slowly wanes
and ceases to support material animation.

much -like- your blood carries your life
on it but taken out of circulation and
placed in a bottle, it slowly ceases to
be useful in support of living tissue.

and so, while we can say that
"the breath of life" lives and
is from God and imparts life
to the material, when removed
from God's own Presence, it wanes.

and that waning process is
like a lightbulb unplugged.

much -unlike- material human beings,
there is no way to drain all
the life out of God.

backtracking a bit, it has been mentioned
how "Adam" never took from the "Tree of Life"

and so, in that regard, it can be stated
that "Adam" was never plugged into -that-
Life which is God's own personality structure,
but was being perpetuated by God's infusion
of the breath of life.

so, how exactly are "the breath of life"
and "the Holy Spirit" different?

well, it is also -like- "the breath of life"
is an aspect of God's Life which specifically
renders animation to the physical material
world, while "The Holy Spirit" is a medium
which bears God in God.

like, "the breath of life" is carried
on blood and oxygen and God is carried
on "the Holy Spirit"

"the breath of life" is not blood and
oxygen because these cannot be said
to be alive in isolation.

the breath of life drives
material animation processes.

but we don't say that _God_ is
made alive by the breath of life,
but that God -is- Life in God's
own Persona.

The Holy Spirit is substance
which is not physically defineable
but, more than that, The Holy Spirit
is Life and Living, The Holy Spirit
carries God and Is God.

so, what of "Adam"

what sort of 'life' did "Adam" possess
after God breathed the 'breath of life'
into the non-living, material formed,
creation, but before "Adam" was able
to reach out and eat from
The Tree of Life?

'alive and -not- alive' at the same time?

yes, "Adam" was a functional material animation,
but "Adam" was not yet inhabitted and possessed
by the Life of God which carries on God's own,
non-physical yet, substantial medium.

the breath of life comes from God and
is supportable in the material by God,
but aside from God's own Presence, the
breath of life does not impart any
everlasting qualities of its own.

admittedly, this is a, somewhat,
complex and recursive issue, but
not one that is without resolution.

and we look at Jesus...
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 10:45:31 UTC
Permalink
anyway, here's what God did not do,

God did not let "Adam" die and abolish "Man"
and then form a new man from the dust of the
ground and breathe the breath of life in to
a new creation 'starting all over from scratch,'
as it were, and hope that -this- 'new' "Adam"
did not make the same false move, but took
from the Tree of Life instead.

didn't do that.

God perpetuated Adam's life thru childbirth.

and thru Jesus, repaired "Adam".

that's one thing to keep in mind.

but Jesus is still a -little- bit different.
different from Adam and different from Adam's progeny.
much like Adam and much like Adam's progeny
but a -little- bit different.

but also, _God_ didn't do anything wrong.

it wasn't God's fault that "Adam"
grabbed from that false intention.

and so, if God wiped out Adam and
started all over from scratch, one
may conclude that, somehow, God had
done something wrong of which God
intended to fix, 'the next time'

and like some of us can see and agree,
this is no "trial and error" experiment.

so, it's not -just- that God
addressed the problem, as it lay,
and worked out this Salvation,

but that Man's error was not God's error.

and also, -we- have to keep in mind the
-other- controversy that pre-dates the
forming of "Adam" from the dust of
the ground, and remember that it
-ain't- -all- about -us-.

i'm getting to the special significance
of the Blood of Christ, and i will in a bit;


so, does God provide a witness
to me thru the Holy Spirit?
certainly, yes indeed.

and at times, God teaches me from the text.

Christ has always been living.

look at this again for a second;

--
1 Peter 1:10-11
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired
and searched carefully, who prophesied of the
grace that would come to you, searching what,
or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ
who was in them was indicating when He testified
beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the
glories that would follow.
--

but just look at who or what
comes to, thru or by said "prophets"

--
Hosea 1:1
The word of YHWH that came
to Hosea the son of Beeri,

Joel 1:1
The word of YHWH that came
to Joel the son of Pethuel.

Amos 7:16
Now therefore, hear the word of YHWH:

Jonah 1:1
Now the word of YHWH came to
Jonahthe son of Amittai, saying,
Jonah 3:1
Now the word of YHWH came to
Jonah the second time, saying,

Micah 1:1
The word of YHWH that came to Micah...

Zephaniah 1:1
The word of YHWH which came
to Zephaniah the son of Cushi,

Haggai 1:1
...the word of YHWH came
by Haggai the prophet

Zechariah 7:8
Then the word of YHWH
came to Zechariah, saying,

Malachi 1:1
The oracle of the word of
YHWH to Israel by Malachi.

Isaiah 38:4
And the word of YHWH
came to Isaiah, saying,

Jeremiah 1:4
Then the word of YHWH
came to me, saying:

Ezekiel 1:3
the word of YHWH came
expressly to Ezekiel
the priest,
--

so, essentially, our dear friend Peter
affirms that "The Spirit of Christ"
-is- "the word of YHWH"

and John says that this "Word of God"
became flesh and dwellt among men.

this same "Word of God" who has
always been with and in God
and -is- God.

so, that's Jesus, "The Word of YHWH"
became flesh and dwellt among men.

but i've harped on that many times.

no big deal, people will tell
you that DNA is like a book.

and then there's the "veil of the flesh"

and, the veil in the Temple
between the outer courts and
The Holiest of Holies.

and Jesus carried his own blood thru
the veil of the flesh into this world
and spilled in on the ground.

i'm not finished yet,

but, consider Cain and Abel and Seth;

Cain = "possession"

Abel = "breath"

Seth = "compensation"

and also consider The Day of Atonement

Abel is murdered and spills his blood
on the ground and the ground cries to YHWH.

and Cain is sent away practically
driven from the land itself, but
not put to death.

well, that's quite a bit like the
two goats for which lots were cast
on The Day of Atonement.

the goat for YHWH is slain

and the goat for Azazel
is driven from the land.

but Jesus was conceived of The Holy Spirit.

that is, Jesus, the man, was brought
forth -by- the Spirit of Christ.

The Spirit of Christ which is
The Word of YHWH which is
The Holy Spirit

is impressed directly in to Mary
and she gives birth to a Son.

"Son of 'Adam'" thru Mary
"Son of God" thru The Word which -is- Spirit.

this "second "Adam"" or "second Man"

-is- a Living Spirit

but look, the man called "breath" is
murdered by the man called "possession"

seems to me, i mentioned a bit about
Azazel's goat and said how this, in part,
represented your 'possession' to the
existing conditions.

well, i said "slavery" but
it borders on the same idea.

well, this bit seems to be going
somewhere, but i have to go
somewhere as well,

i'll see if i can tie some more
of this stuff together a bit later.

well, "religion" is a "tie"

but the Truth is a passageway to freedom.

and Cain was "possession"

but Abel is a breath.

and Jesus is a Living Spirit

but the Blood...
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 10:50:27 UTC
Permalink
God's intent for the human beings is twofold,

unity of the material realm with the Spirit

and proving the Wisdom of God to those
immortal created spirits who entered
in to the "sin consciousness" that is,
the diabolical wrestling match
of beauty and want.


God's complete entry into the material realm,
thru the veil of the flesh, was predestined.

the elevation of the human beings into
full unity with God, in the Spirit, was
intended from before the onset of
the material creation event.


think on this for a moment,
the material creation may have had as
one intended purpose the pulling out a
"sin consciousness," _if_ such a thing
was present, from those among the
initial spiritual creation.

as in, the first created spirits,
could not fully comprehend God and so,
did not develop that covetous desire,
in want for God's Glory.

meaning, even to those in the spirit realm,
some aspect of God remains incomprehensible,
and beyond finding out, except by
a Revelation from God.

'they' did not, know what 'they' were not.

so, while 'they' may have been aware of
the Presence of God, 'they,' as yet, could
not fully comprehend the depth of
God's Being in Wisdom.



and this bit to help pinpoint where
the first "yes = no" statement arises
and births the "sin consciouness"

the Identity as "The Creator"
remained somewhat incomprehensible
to the first created being.


material genesis requires concious initiator


_THE Creator_


event sequence before Creation is timeless
Creator brings forth new beings in likeness to Creator
an expression of THE Creator's Love, by definition
new beings not responsible for being Created


_THE Creator_


is a unique, Divine, attribution
no other being may claim this attribution for self
to covet this attribution is to be found in want
a want that is not in likeness to Creator
a want that is not Truth


Created, material, human beings are birthed in material want
human beings must have Creator's presence to survive
human beings not created with knowledge of want
human beings discover knowledge of want
human beings now have knowledge of want
knowledge of want separates them from Creator


one creation created without want
births want in falsehood

one creation created in want
discovers a lack they need
never have experienced


Creator immerses in material want
Creator experiences no want of
Divine Presence and attribution.


Creator always in Likeness to Creator
the falsehood of want[covet] is dispelled in
want[material] by Creator who knows no lack.



with the advent of the material Creation
they could develop a jealous desire for
control of the excellant Creation.

and so, 'we,' the human beings, are part
and parcel of the Revelation of God's Wisdom
to those immortal, yet created spirits.


-and- to be Gifted with that unmerited entry
into the abode of Love in God in Christ.

a Gift of a Name, Superior to any held
by those immortal created spirits

a Name which offers up the entry
into a full unity with God

a Unity those created spirits could
only grasp at and never fully
comprehend in themselves.


those immortal spirits who birthed
their sin consciousness had abandoned
their Faith in favor of the Mad Power Trip.

while those among the immortal spirits who
remained Loyal to God, glimpsed God thru Faith,
and the Joyous event of the material Creation
did not turn their heads.


but even they, may not enter
into the full Unity of Christ.

unless and until 'we,' the human beings
accredit them with full equality.

that is, their destiny is turned
over to -our- merciful judgement.


such awesome responsibilty in the hands of clay jars.


such an awesome God to spill a Precious Life
onto the ground to Redeem these selfsame
jars made of clay.


the Wisdom of God, smashes
the adamantine grasp of
covetous desire.

the Wisdom of God steels
the fragility of the
material's fabric.

and more...






Ephesians 2:5-7
...made us alive together with Christ
[..], and raised us up together,
and made us sit together
in the heavenly places
in Christ Jesus,...




you're already -home-.

seek the clarity of -that- vision.

and don't let your eyes block your view.


the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man
searching for Divine utterance, and
when he found the storehouse, he
became totally devoted to God.


The Kingdom of Heaven is like a God
who empties personal treasures in to
jars of clay, and then buys back
those jars of clay to be God's.



The Kingdom of Heaven is like
a Word from God conferring Divine
understanding on all who will hear.



and, you know, you didn't arise free of charge.
no, a great deal of effort and much resource
was expended to bring you in to the Light.

yeah, you're free, but you didn't come cheap.

don't squander your Gifts.

we are possessed by God.



here's a funny little thing to ponder;

so, like, there's God, right?

and then God causes all these
"new" spirit beings appear.

and now, there's a great many spirit beings.

and the 'new' spirit beings all look around
and there's a manifestation of God in Christ
right in there amongst them, and there's no
great big neon lights pointing at
the Christ as Creator.

as far as 'they' are concerned,
The Christ is just another
one of them.

and only The Christ, knows for certain,
that The Christ caused all these
'new' spirit beings to appear.

only The Christ, knows for certain,
that The Christ is the Creator
who IS The Living God.

and, when I make mention of
the spirit beings who "remained Loyal to God"
and "glimpsed God thru Faith"

it was they, who acknowledged YHWH
as The Christ, as Creator.

and foremost, it was Lucifer,
who held this esteem for himself.

or rather, -covetted- this esteem for himself.

and, some say, a full third of the
original spirit creation was swept away
into The Adversary's deception.


but YHWH holds the Key.

and, The Resurrection settles the score.

and now, we, who enter into The Life

provide a full presentation to "the fallen"
that YHWH is The Christ, is Creator.

and, a glimpse beyond Faith to The Loyal.

and in turn, The Loyal, are Gifted to Us.

as, The Christ ascended, and gave Gifts to mankind.

and still, we progress...


# God's intent for the human beings is twofold,
# unity of the material realm with the Spirit

renunciation of the material is not your aim.

no, if you've come to some acknowledgement
of this "Love" thing, and you agree with it
and your innermost will knows it's the Truth,

then, while you're standing around with
a few extra seconds on your hands and nothing
better to do, you have the opportunity
to prove this agreement and bring your
material being in line with the Will
of this "Love" thing that you claim
you now believe in and agree with.

don't just convince yourself that your material
being is barren and beyond reconciliation,
to the Will of this "Love," and wait for release.

what you probably don't want is to have your environs
so dictate a policy to your material being that that
material being dictates a distorted policy to your
innermost will who has come to agree that "Love"
is living and real and prosperous in growth, and
that distorted policy starves your innermost
will and does irreparable damage.

don't poison your child while it is yet in the womb.

a little light house work

you can keep that lamp right where it is


apparently

it's not personal effort that can
ever win you favors from God, but
the agreement.

that is, as you come to terms with
The Almighty, the shackles begin
to drop off all by themselves.

mind you, those shackles can be
a hindrance to personal effort.

and the alignment of private intent
with "Love" should enable a more
successful personal effort.

so, there you are, trying to walk successfully
towards God with your own personal millstone
tied to your back

heavy laden.

that millstone being opposed to your
inner will's agreement with "Love"

being conscious of, and mired in, shortfall.

but it's started to crumble because
you've come to Christ for Saving Graces.

you get a glimpse at forward progress.

you and Christ start hammering
away at the millstone.

if all goes well,

you gain strength as the millstone disappears.

no, the millstone didn't give you strength

agreement with Christ in
"Love" gave you strength.

agreement with Christ in "Love"
made the millstone disappear.

your strength made the millstone disappear.

a strength you didn't realize until you
began to hear God telling you you had it.

a millstone you gave yourself
that stood in the way of your
agreement with God.


God sees you without spot, in Christ.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:20:01 UTC
Permalink
# Jonah 1:1
# Now the word of YHWH came to
# Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,


speaking of Jonah

remember the sign of Jonah,

Jesus said that was the sign
he would provide to those
who were seeking after
a sign from him.

but look, when Jonah was
in the great big fish for
three days and nights,

he was praying to YHWH.

and Jesus said that the
great big fish was
-like- a grave.

-like- a grave that -he-
would spend three days
and three nights in.

and Jonah was praying to God
while in the great big fish.

so, it's like YHWH was -in-
the corpse of the man for
three days and nights.

Jesus, the man, was dead,
his heart was not beating,

but YHWH Savior
was still alive
in the corpse.

Philip asked Jesus;

"show us the Father"

and Jesus said to Philip;

"you mean i've been standing
here all this time and you
-still- don't recognize me?
I _AM_ The Father"

see, but they could only see the flesh body.

but YHWH is -in- that flesh body, -in- that corpse.

but, while human beings didn't recognize him,

the Angelic Host -did- recognize him.

-they- saw something -they- had never seen before.

-they- _saw_ The Father

Michael, 'Who is Like God', had seen the
beautiful Creation and remained loyal
to YHWH, but he had never fully seen,
appreciated nor grasped the immense
entirety of God in Spirit.

-like- Michael saw the after-effects in Word
but could not see the inner recesses of the
Mind of Christ, -but- to Michael's credit,
Michael did -not- reach out in Want with
that covetous desire to for the inherent
Authority which was YHWH's Scepter
and Strong Right Arm.

and when Michael -saw- Jesus Christ
Michael began to remove His own crown,
and when he saw the resurrected Christ,
Michael tossed His own crown at Jesus' feet.

-that- Spectacular Vision Truly sealed the sum.

Jesus Christ, YHWH Savior, is Worthy
of -all- Honor Respect and Admiration.

just as an aside;

Word is Like Spirit

and Michael is Like God,

but Michael is not The Holy Spirit

Michael is not The Creator

Michael is a Creation

YHWH brought forth two "Angelic" beings

one called "Light Bearer" [Lucifer]

and another called "Like God" [Michael]

"the Two Annointed Cherubs who Cover"

they sit atop the Mercy Seat

backtracking;

the Image of the ark of the covenant
has two winged creatures which sit
atop the Mercy Seat,

we can see the two winged creatures

we don't see anything seated
on the Mercy Seat itself

a voice emanates forth from
the midst of the mercy seat.

what is somewhat funny
is that this "Lucifer"

"sealed the sum -until- Injustice appeared within"

['iniquity' means 'injustice']


"Lucifer" perverted Lucifer's own sense
of Justice by covetous design and seeks
to prove to YHWH that there is no real
Justice, effectively destroying YHWH.

Satan, now, has no recognition of nor
empathy for anyone else but Satan.
Satan does not recognize Mercy.

Satan carries a delusional recollection
of a Glorious Light, but Satan has
no real sense of Mercy.

[[[this will come to void
Satan's own existance]]]


YHWH is fully aware and has a plan.


Satan is -not- fully aware, in part,
because Satan has turned inward,
effectively blinding Satan to
even the remote notion that YHWH
isn't thinking in exactly the
same pattern as Satan is thinking.

as yet, Satan can not recognize
this personal Occultation, standing in
the very way of even Lucifer's Brilliance.

YHWH sparks the material Universe.

and what of Man?

Jesus...



Michael is a Prince

Princes rule over principalities.

the principalities were -all- disarmed,
whether favorable in -their- outlook
towards YHWH or not so inclined to
acknowledge YHWH as THE Creator and,
therefore, preeminent in all things.

YHWH -not- being one to "lord it over"
anything, anyone or even YHWH in Esse.

Michael was perfectly willing to acknowledge
YHWH as preeminent. it was merely that Michael
only knew this preeminence by Faith and not by sight.

but now Michael had -seen- what
you and i know by Faith and
not by sight.

-we- have direct access into
the Holiest of all Holies
with Christ,

and Michael would peer
into this with -us-

as he peered into it
thru Jesus Christ.

but still others, who were held in chains
against the final acknowledgement, -saw-
the outer courts and await -our- final
reckoning so as to gain entry.

so, what did Satan see?

Satan saw such a brilliance that...


# -that- Spectacular Vision Truly sealed the sum.

# Jesus Christ, YHWH Savior, is Worthy
# of -all- Honor Respect and Admiration.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:22:32 UTC
Permalink
# in walking towards God, there are intricacies
# that open up that will probably make you think
# that what you thought you saw at first which
# was so profound is really really profound.

just, in a very real sense,
dear old Jesus is very much
like this from both directions.

as Son of God,
he is the fullness
of Deity dwelling bodily,
the perfect encapsulation of
the unspeakable riches of God,

and as Son of Man,
the human being is
brought fully in line
with that Divine nature.

in a sense, Son of God is forever teaching
and leading Son of Man in to Life and
a commanding Faith.

and so, Son of Man speaks to Son of God
and Son of God speaks to Son of Man in
the person of Jesus, and no conflicted
turmoil is present, even to the point
of accepting an ultimate suffering that
Son of Man, fully aligned with Son of God,
need never have experienced, but a suffering
which Son of God could see clearly through
to it's ultimate conclusion in the Salvation
of the human race from certain anihilation.

thank you Jesus.


very much like -Word of God-
is a perfect encapsulation of
-Spirit of God-

'they' represent a perfect
matchup and overlay,

but it's not extremely difficult to
understand how -Word- and -Spirit-
are not THE same thing.

just for a second, think about our
old friend DNA and instruction sets
known as algorithms, and the idea of Template.

this is a -likeness-, not the actual
relationship of Word and Spirit itself,

anyway, if you look at DNA as the
algorithm which replicates itself,

and then you step back to -just-
the algorithm -without- the chemicals
which constitute that algorithm,

and say that the algorithm itself could
be memorized and known in thought aside
from it's physical representation in matter,

whereby, you use that memory of the Template
structure to fashion a physical representation
from material substance, then that material
substance becomes the exact physical
representation of a thing which
was held in memory.

just in -likeness- one could suggest
that 'Spirit' was -like- the idea of
the Template which was held in memory
and 'Word' was -like- the substance of
that same Template which itself is
a Template for further reproductions.

i am -not- saying that 'Word of God' is
a physical material substance, but only
that in -likeness- to the DNA Template
structure that one may draw such parallels.

what it would come down to
is something like this;

in likeness to Spirit and Word

we could say that the Template
itself -is- the memory of
the algorithm.

that is, Spirit and Word are inseparable
even if 'they' are -not- THE same thing.

that is, neither stands alone,

They are a Unity and

there is no opposition.

and so, if we were to say that 'Word of God'
was a perfect representation of 'Spirit of God'

we would also be saying that 'Spirit of God'
was composed of 'Word of God'

and so, just like 'them'

we would -never- suggest that;

'one was greater than the other'

for the very simple fact
that 'they' are ONE God.

and then, when you begin the
incorporation of the physical
material world into the ethereal
'supra-natural world'

it's nested

and Jesus Christ -is- the Cross

'Word of God' conceived by
'Spirit of God' in the material

more on this as it develops...



but remember, for a second, our dear
old friend Pythagoras who was of the
opinion that everything could be reduced
to a relationship of pure numbers, and also,
how the periodic table basically sees
the natural elements as just this,
a bunch of pure numbers.

just remember that for a second,

before you start to remembering
about how this "God" spoke the
material universe in to existance.

relatedness of objects

a bunch of numbers

letters

"what is it like to eat apple pie?"

"well, it's a lot like eating
coconut cream pie only it
tastes like apples."

"what do apples taste like?"

"green"

"7"

anyway, so, 'Word of God' is a Being.
"the word of God" also called 'the bible'
is not a being, but a compilation of texts
most of which are directly attributable
to 'Word of God' the Being.

in what manner is this communication
made intelligible to human beings?

does reading "do not do murder"
place the Love of God into you?

8

before you speak to that,

just remember, God seems to 'trigger' things.

that is, God seems to employ triggering mechanisms.

like we mentioned before,

there was no 'metastable trigger'
to initiate the material universe
from whatever understanding of
'singularity' you feel
comfortable with.

that is, we pointed out that some
conscious personality -must- have
set things in motion.

God spoke, and things happened

all we're mentioning now is that
words trigger an infusion of the Spirit.

but even then, it's not just the words
all by themselves that bring the
Presence of God across
your threshhold.

but do just any words trigger the reaction?

does hearing "do not do murder"
place the Love of God into you?

what do you have to -hear-

what exactly is "hearing"

can you hear and not hear at the same time?

sure, it happens all the time, you can
hear someone speaking to you and not
understand a word of it.

you heard the noise but
didn't hear the meaning.

but we say that hearing
triggers the infusion of
the Presence of God
in your life.

it's almost as if, this triggering
is inherent in the Nature of God,
and in a strange way, The Spirit
spoke forth The Word and things be-came,
and now, The Word ushers The Spirit
in to the things that be-came.

but the Two are One

as an aside; the square root
of two cannot be reckoned as
a ratio of two pure numbers.

i don't know why i said that, but i did.

but that's funny for some reason,

because the distance measured out is finite.
the distance that spans the length between
two one unit sides of a right triangle is finite,

but you can only -know- that
distance to the precision of
your measuring instruments.

and so, one could suggest that the more
accurate your measuring instruments get,
the more precisely you know that finite distance.

and so also, just like David,
you don't come to some point and say;

"ok God, i'm cool now i don't need you any more"

while we are in the material,
it can be said that there can
always be refinements to be made,

out beyond the last appreciable decimal place.

where 3 may be a perfectly good rendering
for pi. and 3.14 is better, 3.1415926535897
is pretty good, but 3.1415926535897932384626433832795
is -not- precisely the True representation
of that particular relationship.

and so, we work on our recipes

and sometimes, we simply tell you that
there -is- such a thing as apple pie.

et cetera

# but the Two are One

so anyway;

if you find yourself in
a ceaseless state of 'prayer'

bringing -your- words in to
alignment with The Mind of Christ

then it's just like click-click-click

you are one Christ is one God is one

that is Truth

that God is One

that is Love

that God is One

that is Faith

that God is One

that is the activity of the Spirit

bringing things to be
by declarations in Faith

with the assurance of a good result
being the same as that certain knowledge
you have that when you release a stone
from your hand it will fall to the ground.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:26:38 UTC
Permalink
so,

God is Breathing eternally God.

when the breathing Spirit moves forward
in some utterance, this Word brings
the Spirit in to a 'new place'

a 'new place' that comes in to being
simultaneously with the utterance.

before this beginning, God knows God
as the private inspiration of God.

before this beginning, Love is a
private matter known only in God.

one can suggest that The Word which is
always present in Spirit and with Spirit
summarily formulates an encapsulation
of God's own Spirit, and,
as God speaks
this unseen Word, that which was not seen,
becomes seen, and God is beginning to show
that which God has always known.

in this beginning, of material and
non-material structures, is seen the
evidence of the unseen Word
and, as
the unseen Word is made manifest,
so also, the Spirit is realized
in this 'new place'




strange is the singular declaration
made by God and conceived in
the human Mary,
is
different from the multiple
declarations made by God which
resulted in the material universe.

which is to say: the material universe
is brought forth in discrete stages,
whereas
Jesus,
that ultimate manifestation of The Word,
came about in one complete declaration.

if we say that each declaration made by God
carries an exacting image of God's own presence,
then, the multiple declarations made in bringing
forth the material universe, each resemble
particular manifestations of Theistic attribution,

whereas, that singular declaration which
conceives Christ, is the Spirit made Word
made material.


God has taken hold of this 'new place' and

the multiple manifestations all reside as One.



The Word made manifest is God,

but, a summed duplication of God is not God,

this drama serves first to demonstrate
with crystal clarity that God is God
and there can be no other God.

while God knew that God's own Spirit
would be presented with undeniable
clarity in God's own Word,

God can also be aware that any summation
of all Theistic attribution would remain
short of the Fullness of Deity in Love,

but, any lack of recognition of God's
Ultimate Preeminence in All
found in any summed
duplication of God's attributes must
be met with the strictest Judgement
until such time as God's own Mercy
is to be correspondingly bestowed.

to be 'not God' is not a crime.

to be 'not God' and not comprehend,
must be treated as a crime.

such chastizement is unutterably profound

subsequently, the removal of all blot is

Joy unspeakable and full of Glory.





God acts according to God's own Will
founded in that Love which human beings
aspire to comprehend.




God spins out a governing authority
as independant Beings.


before we examine the purpose to which
these independant Beings were spun out,

we would consider that in spinning out
these structural elements as independant
characteristics, these elements first take
on the attribute of 'not God' inasmuch as
they become as creations, and therefore,
God must redeem these structural elements,
themselves, in to full unity with God.

what could be considered strange, is that
any of these God breathed characteristics
could turn around, and view God as subject
to -it's- authority.

so, now, looking at this view, we can
easily see a potential for God's own
creation to turn on God and convince
itself that God belongs in
-its- dominion.


the Creator being ruled by a creation.


such authority as God already possesses
in God's own Perfect Will in Love.


God acts according to God's
own Will founded in Love.


such a turnaround could found a Selfish
elevation which would nullify ·that·
creation's claim to Love, the defining
characteristic of God.


should such a turnaround occur, its reckoning
as a potential hazzard would already have been
recognized, but still, it will remain as a
controversy in any creation that would desire
to subjugate that perfect Will of God.


in so doing,

·that· creation stymies its own freedom.

in so doing,

·that· creation distorts it's
view of Self to deny that
perfect Will of God.

in so doing,

·that· creation captures itself in a snare.



to aspire to God by denying that to which it aspires
it must deny it's own God breathed characteristics
and distort it's own view of it's own authority.



meanwhile, God is still God and only Loves.



but, ·that· unruly ruler has fallen headlong
in to a morass of irrational justifications.



whereas, ideally it would have it's
independant will in submission to
the unity of God's perfect
Will in Love,


it now has two ·competing· wills


it has birthed an indecisive
competition with it·self which
it also translates into an
adversarial position against
God, its Creator.


Self destruction is immenent


freeze it there for a while...
God acts according to God's own Will
founded in that Love which human beings
aspire to comprehend.
we could call this True autonomy.

behaving independantly according to personal will,
coupled with designs only to carry those admirable,
harmless and benevolent actions borne out of Love.


as God grants autonomy to its creations, we would
not consider it harmless and benevolent to allow
any creation to fixate on its own attributes
to the point of self destructive idolatry.

and so, should such a situation arise, during the
subsequent course of extracting such a creation
from it's self induced strugglings, if God appears
to 'smite' that creation with harsh criticisms,
we may still conclude that these criticisms are
borne out of an admirable Love.

even if that criticism involves removal
of autonomy and exacting demonstrations
of shortfall.

so, we should conclude that God's meting
out Justice is itself borne out of Love
and alone accomplishes the most Merciful ends.

it is not that God's work is purposefully 'booby-trapped'
but it is as if, in spinning out autonomous figures,
God stands at the door when those autonomous figures
seek an immediate return to the domain of God,

and now, God at the door represents a stumbling stone.

there is no way around God at the door,
because God is the door, and the desire
towards True autonomy is all pervasive.

there is this fine line tripwire which
is simply inherent in the situation.

in God as perfect Unity in Love the good
of the neighbor is exactly the good of God,

but, as God spins out these autonomous figures,
these new creatures must confront the motivating
forces towards True autonomy coupled with the
overriding necessity to cede 'all others' their
own personal autonomy.

and so, when these newly spun autonomous figures
are able to see their own good in and as the good
of all others, they succeed, but as any see their
own personal good as of primary and even sole
importance, they fall short.

and i mean, fall headlong over the stumbling stone.

and so, what may seem to us as
unbearably harsh chastizements,

is simply God falling with the stumbler,
and being there to lift 'it' back up
in newness of Life.

God never pushed it down, it fell.

and God alone can make it rise again.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:35:52 UTC
Permalink
so, basically,

God is Life,

God is The Living God,

God did not create death, death
is not God's intended purpose.

from before; a being who failed to recognize
God's Creative uniqueness darkened [his]
understanding, fabricating a Lie.

God recognizes the Lie
but the Lie is not God.

man was intended, in part, for
God's entry into the material realm,
along with a full duplication of God's
own character with unique
identity parameters.

our little friends, man, grabbed for the Lie
and brought death into the material realm.

death is still not God's creation,
it's just a material artifact of
the Lie that denies God's
Creative uniqueness.

so, God, the source of Living Waters,
enters fully into the material
realm as Jesus.

etc....skipping ahead...

Jesus did not so much die,
as he swallowed up death.

you could say, that Death
itself died in Christ.

and now, God has full manipulative
authority over a thing, death, which
was not created by God nor was
God's intention from the onset.

God cannot die and does not
die and did not create death,

but

God entered into the material world and
apprehended death and began dismantling
our other little friend's divided house.

well, that house is crushed, as if it
never stood, but, as for the finallity
of a thing, all in good time.



so, basically, "Lucifer/Satan"
carries around this impression
that [he] is "God"

not a defect of manufacturing,
but a personal corruption.

cuz look,

it's safe to suggest that human beings
don't remember their birth or their
ultimate beginnings.

but on in life, human beings can
develop memories that carry back
beyond their own personal beginnings.

that is, while you may not remember
your own birth, you can "remember"
that George Washington was the first
president of the United States of America.

so, then, look at our little friend "Lucifer/Satan"

Created in Brilliance, Perfect in all ways...
-not- created as a blank slate, but also,
not Created in isolation.

also, some of "Lucifer/Satan's" 'memories'
had to have been of things that predate
[his] own Creation.

so, some of [his] 'psychic' make-up,
by necessity, was of The Creator, YHWH God.

but what he did, was trade the evidence
of [his] Creation in for [his] own personal
Ideation that [he] was to be esteemed
as greater than YHWH God.

he darkened and covered up [his] understanding
of the evidence of [his] Creation, and sought
to spark an evidence of [his] own that [he]
had no beginning.

the evidence of [his] status as Creation
was clear for [he] was not alone.

others who were 'like God' spread
their wings above the Mercy Seat,
as well.

-this- trade was a personal corruption.
and one not shared by others 'like God'


so look, "Lucifer/Satan" still carried this
darkened understanding around with [him] when
[he] was allowed access to the human beings
in the Garden.

truth is, "Lucifer/Satan" carried a 'knowledge
of good and evil' which [he] had birthed
in [his] own personal corruption.

note:

YHWH God didn't say to the man;

"don't eat from that because
you will become like me and
I don't want that"

neither did YHWH God say;

"don't eat from that or -I- will kill you"


but our little friend the 'serpent'

said;

"if you eat of that you will become like "God""


but they didn't become "like God"

they became like "Lucifer/Satan"


with a darkened understanding
and personally corrupted.

ashamed and morally bankrupt.

but still able to pretend to themselves
that everything was fine just the way it
was just so long as they could manufacture
their own personal cover-ups for their
own personal view of inadequacy.

and if anything was astray,
it was someone else's fault.

not "Godlike" attributes.


as we suggest to you that YHWH God went so
far as to accept an admonishment of sorts
onto YHWH God for a corruption that was
not YHWH God's Creation.

and in so doing, disarm the fear of Death.

a fear that Lies against Faith.

a Faith that is the evidence of Love.

a Love that perpetutes renews and redeems Life.

a Life that has no beginning.



but they didn't become "like God"
they became like "Lucifer/Satan"
with a darkened understanding
and personally corrupted.

but look, God doesn't intimately
know theft and murder,

God intimately knows Love.

God recognizes that which is not Love.

God scans the 'hearts' and
minds of human beings.

can suggest that "Lucifer/Satan"
has no 'secret' of which God
is not fully aware.

'aware' being the operative term.

this overexaggeration of self is
not Love, and God -is- Love, and
therefore when God reads this in
your mind, God recognizes that
as -not- Love.

so, look at theft murder and misrepresentation.

God can not know theft murder or
misrepresentation because all the
stuff belongs to God, right down
to the Life itself.

but when one does these actions,
these actions are recognized by God
as stemming from a source which
is -not- Love.


you have an other 'god'


and this other 'god' is so subtle,
that God can read the intent in your
mind -even- when you don't explicitly
carry the actions out.

but you can't sit there and point
at the 'devil' cuz [he's] already
pointing at you.

the 'devil' accuses you of being
like [him] and that accusation
bears a malignant growth in you,
because you fear death.

so, you become that scared little
creature who surrounds himself
in a fortress of futility.

devoid of Love

Love being incomprehensible thru
the veil of self centered fear.

and you are in desparate need of some
Mighty Hand to pull you out of this
dreary open casket in the center of Hell.

and now you agree.

"Talitha Cumi" "little lamb, arise"

"Lazarus, ["God has helped"] come forth"

be filled with Love and live forevermore.


# what if our little friend Lucifer became
# like a candle that had no Fire, only as
# he considered himself, he carried around
# the memory of his diminished brilliance.

just remember, Lucifer
was not denied any thing.

Lucifer was created in Perfection, sealed the sum.

it was an injustice that Lucifer
invented that was the birth of the Lie.

Lucifer saw "God" as a thing to be grasped.

but Lucifer is -not- The Creator
and won't become the Creator
by any means.


obviously, there is, at the very least,
one attribute that God cannot bestow
on any Creation.

and that is The Identification -as- Creator.

God can Create a Being that 'seals the sum,'

but that Creation can -never-
be identified as Creator.

and this Identification carries with
it a Life all its own that will not
be subject to mimicry.

God isn't 'holding back'

this Identification is simply non-transferrable.

and we praise and admire God -as- Creator.

we never seek a thing
for ourselves that is
not ours to have.

We accept the Gracious Gift of Life.

and we praise and admire God -as- Creator.


and, God can endow the
Creation with creative
abilities,

but, God will never take on
the attribution of 'creation'.

God alone is Creator and -never- "creation"
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:54:46 UTC
Permalink
here's something worthwhile noting;

it concerns the accuracy of clocks and
the smallest increment of time measured
by human beings.

here's a bit on the atomic clock ca. 1993

---
http://whyfiles.org/078time/3.html
1993 NIST-7 -- the latest atomic clock --
comes on line, with an accuracy of
five parts in 10^15.
---

and here's a bit about looking
at a small bit of time pulsed.

--
Clock Measures Attosecond Pulses
http://www.photonics.com/spectra/research/XQ/ASP/preaid.28/QX/read.htm
--

one attosecond 1 x 10^-18 seconds

what's of note is that there is no
accurate clock in the range of anything
smaller than 10^-15-10^-18 seconds

and so, for all practical purposes,
it is not safe to suggest that any
smaller increment of time even exists.

and so, for anyone to make comments
about what may or mat not be happening
at 10^-25 seconds is unwarranted
and purely speculative.

but everyone already knew that, right?

10^-27 seconds doesn't even exist.

so, you can say, as far as you
can demonstrate with experiment,

that there was T = 0 and then
there was T = 10^-18 seconds,
at best.

so what?

so, making referrence to bits of time
smaller than 10^-15-10^-18 seconds
is purely a metaphysical conjecture
and -not- 'scientific discovery.

[that's 10 to the -minus- 18 seconds]
or;
0.000000000000000001 seconds


think about this for a second;

hold your hands about two feet apart
and try and convince yourself that
the material universe was encapsulated
in that space and just sat there
waiting to burst forth in an
expansionary ignition.

now tell yourself why this two foot
area isn't fully collapsed to a zero volume.

say three solar systems in volume,
same thing, why isn't it completely collapsed?

truth is, even considering the universe as
'occupying' the space of only ten of our
solar systems, all atomic integrity would
be lost and you would not have matter
as 'we' know it.

so, you realize that a pre-ignition
material universe occupies no volume.

no volume
no gravity
no electromagnetism
no atomic forces
no heat.

in essence, if you have a blob of matter,
and that blob of matter absorbs energy
from some outside source, that absorption
of energy is coincident with an increase
in the vibration of the harmonic oscillation
in the atoms of the blob.

just like two tuning forks, where
one vibrating fork induces a tune
or vibration in the second fork,
when held in close proximity.

matter can absorb light energies
in the form of an increased
harmonic vibration.

the light is vibrating, passes thru
the matter and induces a vibration
in the atomic structure of the matter.

well, look, in a collapsed non-atomic state
there is no harmonic oscillation to induce
in anything and no interstitial spaces
to even allow vibrations at all
in any manner.

and so, in a completely collapsed
material universe, no such induction
of vibrations is possible.

and this idea of "collapse" is just a model
looking backwards from an inflated material
universe we live in, and noting these
observationally derived datums;

the material universe is not infinitely old
the material universe has a beginning
the material universe is said to be expanding

unreasonable to assume that the smallest
volume of the universe is finite and non-zero.

zero volume completely removes any
possibility of harmonic oscillation
from matter.

now, show yourself that there
is no tuning fork to -induce-
a vibration in anything
else anywhere.

now, what made the material universe ignite?

no accidental ignition is possible.
no accidental ignition is possible.
no accidental ignition is possible.

there simply is no trigger.

and there is your absolute necessity
for a Creative Personality.

genesis can -not- be an accident.

and that which you can see now,
was brought into being by this
Creative Personality which
you can not see.

otherwise, the material universe
never ignites, it remains static.

The Creator Made the material universe happen.

it's that simple.


now look at these definitions;

----
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mass
Mass
Abbr. m Physics. A property of matter equal
to the measure of an object's resistance
to changes in either the speed or direction
of its motion. The mass of an object is
not dependent on gravity and therefore is
different from but proportional to its weight.
Mass is the quantity of matter in a body;

Matter
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=matter
Something that occupies space and can be perceived
by one or more senses; a physical body, a physical
substance, or the universe as a whole. Physics.
Something that has mass and exists as a
solid, liquid, gas, or plasma.
----

so, "in the beginning"

the material universe had no existance at all.

can be no mass with no possible speed
nor possible direction of motion.

can be no material without
space in which to reside.

id est, matter occupies space.

all mass and matter is a void of some
non-definable 'stuff' that is -not-
detectable by any physical method.

and this 'stuff' has no triggering
mechanism by which to suddenly burst
forth in some sort of explosive violence.


now, you may find that some suggest
a definition for 'heat' which is based
on the generic -motion- of particles,

but, the "singularity" has no properties
and is not 'waiting to burst forth'.

likewise, if we extrapolate an expansive
universe which has a beginning back
to the beginning,

there can be no citation of any motion
and therefore, no heat content is
possible in any manner.

whether from the springlike qualities of atomic
structure or some generic motion of particles
contended to have been spewed out of
a motionless singularity.

no matter how you dice it up,

no particles no motion,

no motion no heat

-not- 'infinite heat waiting to burst forth'

you can't cite a springloaded, metastable 'singularity'

'motion' of particles that don't
exist cannot be generating heat.

that would be paradoxical.

you can't say that the motion of particles
provided the heat that resulted in their
own existance.

without citing the motion of particles,
you have no heat content to cite.

it's still the same problem.

at Time T = 0

no motion can be cited.

no heat content.

not to mention that citing the motion of
particles is really just citing a kinetic
-potential- energy as they would not generate
a heat until they hit a wall of some sort.

that would be the statistical
mechanical framework.

a moving partical has kinetic energy.

heat would be generated in collisions.

you can't really say that a solitary
particle that is in motion, is 'hot'

basically, motion, in and of itself is
not 'heat' there has to be some sort
of dynamic interaction.

so, you invent this phantom 'quantum gravity'

that would cause 'objects simultaneously all
moving away from each other to start banging
into each other with no apparent anti-impetus.

anyway, it's all moot,

-no- accidental triggering mechanism.

citation of Creator God is necessary.

a Creator God with concious intent
must be cited as source for
the material universe.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:55:31 UTC
Permalink
but, here's a parlor trick you may see;

the contention would be that at Time T = 0

total universal energy was encapsulated
within an infinitesimal 'space'

and then, in the span of less than 10^(-43) seconds

thats;

{0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001} s


a small amount of so-called 'matter//anti-matter'
had -formed- with a momentum and therefore a
'kinetic energy' which may be described
as a 'heat potential'

you may hear it stated like this somewhere;
--
"and matter and antimatter existed in almost
equal amounts, but they were both dominated
by the background energy of the universe."
--

and now;

-all- of the universal energy can
be described as 'heat energy'

that is, now they may speak of
"infinitely large heat content"

-this- is a parlor trick.

if you do claim that some infinitesimal
amount of matter anti-matter has always existed,

then this would also have an infinitesimal
heat content associated with the momenta
of both types of 'particles' and not some
infinite heat content.

and so, it's a parlor trick to convince
yourself that 'universal energy' may be
reckoned as an 'infinite heat energy'

given the use of the defining attribution
that would ascribe 'heat energy' to the
momentum of particles.

and that, at best, only an infinitesimal amount
of this so-called 'matter//anti-matter' -may-
have existed which would deliver any momentum
which may be described as a heat potential.

albeit, this so-called "matter//anti-matter"
is not quarks and electrons but some sort
of precursor formulation that for all practical
purposes, has an infinitesimal mass and therefore,
no real momentum, or infinitesimal momentum,
and we're back to infinitesimal heat potential
and not 'infinite heat energy'.


basically, if you don't cite a time at which
no matter//anti-matter existed, you lose
some reckoning of the process having
a 'beginning' you have to cite some
phantom repressor technology that
holds back the switchover until
ca. 14 billion years ago.

even if one cites a span from

10^(-150) to 10^(-100) seconds as an actual
interval of time, seeing as how we get to
speak of infinitessimals here,

during this 'period' no matter nor anti-matter
may be said to exist and therefore, we have
no 'heat potential' at all.

and this would collapse to some sort
of reckoning of the state at Time T = 0

even if you will like to claim that
total universal energy is a citable
phenomenon, encapsulated within this
infinitesimal void, there is no reason
to suggest that it is 'infinite heat energy'

and there's just no inanimate,
metastable trigger to initiate genesis





===============
here's your parlor trick;
the contention would be that at Time T = 0
total universal energy was encapsulated
-within- an infinitesimal 'space'
mind you, in entertaining this
notion of universal energy;

this sort of spacial void for universal energy
is not really relevant, because there's no real
geographic location to point at and say, "it's all there"

but, you can point at some small blob of
so-called matter//anti-matter and say,
"there it is"

and, as such, assign it its -infinitesimal- heat content.

so, as opposed to some immense heat blob cooling,
you have some situation where some seed of
matter//anti-matter accepts a transfer of
energy in some form which is converted -to-
heat in the form of an increased momentum.

but there's really no impetus for
something like this to ever happen.

that is, it's very highly implausible that a
blob of matter//anti-matter was laying dormant
in a sea of universal energy and -not- absorbing
energies and being delivered a momentum.

so, you still get stuck speculating on some
state where no matter in any form exists at all.

or citing some sort of repressor technology.

like God's hand holding it back.






the very fact that there is
all this stuff is remarkable.


why is it very 'cold' in the
space between the sun and
the earth?

there has to be some thing to
'absorb' energy from the light.

and the light passes off and induces
higher frequency harmonic oscillations
to the stuff, and this phenomenon is
'felt' as warmth or heat.

but if there is no thing there to absorb
the energy from the light the light just
passes on thru space and keeps -it's-
oscillating frequency basically as constant.

if the light itself behaved at all as a
heated object behaves then light would
shove off 'heat' to empty space and 'heat'
would simply dissipate from light as it
travels thru space and interstellar
space would be 'warm'

but this doesn't happen.

you can't speak of light
as having a 'heat' content.

the way light can transfer energy
is by inducing oscillating frequencies
in some 'object' that has an oscillating
potential energy state that is the
same as that of the light.

when sunlight makes you feel warm
a particular frequency of light is
being absorbed by material in your
body that has energy levels that
are of the same frequency so as
experience some induced oscillation.

long story short

to speak of infinite heat content in a situation
where you cannot point at any object that would
present itself to any sort of induced oscillation
is unwarranted.

that is, light itself can be said
to be self contained and 'cold'

there's no tendency for light
to dissipate 'heat' into a vacuum.

like there is a tendency for a heated object
to dissipate heat into a surrounding vacuum.

so, for all practical purposes, in citing
this matter//anti-matter blob that increases
in momentum, you have to be going from a rather
cold situation to a much warmer situation as
the blob absorbs energies from the
surrounding universal energy.

like the conduit thru which universal energy
could be transformed to universal matter.

but it has to have a beginning of some sort,

meaning some time when there was no such
matter//anti-matter blob in existance,

or when such a blob had no momentum and yet,
was not being impelled by the surrounding
universal energy,

and still, you are stuck citing a
Creator Being to make that happen.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:56:05 UTC
Permalink
alright anyway, big deal, what you need
someone do is describe the state of the
"universe" at time T = 0.

all the first second bit and physical science
in general cannot rightly make a clear definition
of the situation at time T = 0 so, you have two
choices in your speculative conjecture.

either you cite the existance of some substance
that has no known physical qualities, meaning no
physical qualities that may be measured and
therefore does not exist in the normal fashion,

or, you must cite a beginning from
absolute nothing, and this second
choice amounts to a magic.

a "something from nothing,"

that is the definition of a "magic".

but, if you make any referrence to this
"substance" that has no real physically
knowable qualities, you cite a "thing"
that you can have no physical reckoning of.

for all practical purposes, "science" must
discount the "something from nothing"
possibility as a "magic"

and therefore is confined to the emanation of
physical substances _from_ a "substance" that
has no knowable physical properties of its own.

and so, in referrence to absolute origins,
"science" is "stuck" citing a "thing"
that it can never recognize as "real"

but see, i got something even funnier,

you can't even demonstrate that the universe
by necessity came about in the manner described
in the "first second" manner.

this also amounts to pure conjecture.

so, what you cannot rightly disprove is
the proposition that all things simply
popped out of some such "quantum singularity"
fully in tact. that is, that planets and
suns just blurted out of this thing
already in tact.

which leaves you with another stange thing
and that is, that at time T = 0 there was
no physical reality, and at time T = 1 there
was a star that was "apparently"
6 billion years old.

that is, something like this,

that a "black hole" or "quantum sigularity"
just sort of sneezed and blew apart into
constituent fragmentary, atomic nature,
pieces that were already completely formed.

of course, we don't cite an
uncontrolled accident as our origin.

we cite a specifically ordained
manifestation of mechanical effluence.

specifically directed intelligence made it happen.

as metastability cannot be cited
where no mechanistic forces,
as yet, exist.

that is, we cannot suggest that the
flower pot was teetering imperceptibly
on the shelf, and then fell.

as, in the unity of the All, no potential
differences can be credibly cited.

no oppositional forcework.

only Love

whatever that is.



all you can do is say, "we've never
seen anything like that happen before"

but then, you've never studies a true
quantum singularity in any lab of yours
either, and in fact, you cannot.

so, basically, given that the state of
affairs at Time T = 0 favor uncertainty
and not a certainty of nothing at all,

the idea of an eternal God hanging out in
the "midst" of all that unknowable and not
ever knowable "stuff" loses me no sleep at all.

unknowable to experimental material
physics observation knowable to -that-
"stuff" whatever it may be.

what's funny about "life" -inside- of this
nowhere land is the apparent "sequence of events"
that may take place where no seconds tick
off of any clock.

that always struck me as entirely odd.

and the whole 'place' could be tinier than
the head of a pin or larger than the andromeda
galaxy or both simultaneously and neither
because there's no spacial measurement
possible either.

id est, there's no space, no physical
measuring device can comprehend it.

but yet, something "lives" 'there'.

wherever "there" 'is'

but what it -ain't- is
"something from nothing"

something from something
i can come to grips with.

but, nothing is nothing
and what can come of nothing?

so then, there is 'substance'
to that which can never be 'touched'

now nothing can confound you, any more.

or can't, as the case may be.

anyway, materialism falls under this.

simply because there's a "substance"
that has no knowable physical attributes.

and therefore, is not "material" in any way
that you could can describe based on physical
experimentation and observation.

therefore does not "exist" to physical discovery,

but yet, must exist.

and -only- a being with
conscious intent can
'make a tree'
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:57:27 UTC
Permalink
material universe possibilities
given constant material composition;


non-expansive infinitely old burnout

non-expansive young beginning

expansive infinitely old burnout

expansive young beginning


even granting the shadowy 'infinite time'
an inclusion in reality, either we have
a burned out material universe or a
material universe with a beginning.

[note, infinity plus one equals infinity
therefore 'infinity' is not a 'real' number
by some property of additive succession]

we are here to see that
the material universe is
not burned out, therefore
the material universe
has a beginning.


just take this example,

let's say 32 trillion trillion trillion years ago,
the material universe was of similar composition
as it is 'today'

well, given that,
all of its fuel should already be spent,
and we shouldn't be here to ponder its
present state of affairs.

need more time?

45 quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion
quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion years;

it should be spent.

and that ain't even in the
neighborhood of 'infinitely old'


under the presently understood circumstances
for an 'infinitely old' universe to not already
be a burned out cinder 'new matter' must be
emanating from some 'unknwown' -source-.

similar problem as previously stated,

'new' matter requires some impetus
for appearing from no-thing.

to suggest that existing gravitational effects
be responsible for extracting new matter from
no apparent source will require that empty space
be composed of a material substance.

contradiction

therefore, -if- any 'new matter' were
being continuously introduced into the system,
its source can not be it's -own- eternal existance.

'new matter' requires a source, which is
-not- itself, with some -intent- to bring
new matter in to being.


if we are to grant a minimal consideration
to some prospect of an imploding universe,

upon implosion, all atomic material integrity
is lost and we are stuck with the problem
of 're'-genesis from singularity in which case,
all triggering mechanisms are lost and
no self contained impetus for
genesis is available.

not to mention the problems of dissipative
heat loss which may never again accomplish
useful work and so, ...burned out cinder.

to insinuate infinite 'new beginnings'
itself implies 'beginnings' and beginnings
from 'no-thing' inasmuch as an imploded
material universe is no longer composed
of phyical material.

no razor can cut God,
the substance of things not seen,
out of the picture.



regarding such speculations of an
infinite eternal material universe;

[infite mass / infinite volume]

vector analysis forces a -static- universe.

in all directions any object would experience
an 'infinite gravitational force' locking
it in a fixed position for all eternity.

an 'infinite' mesh of evenly dispersed,
very small 'objects', with evenly
dispersed heat content.

this situation can not be made
to agree with our being here at all.

therefore, this situation must be
discarded as self evident falsehood.

universal mass must be finite.

incidental;
all forms of energy, of which human beings
are aware, are generated -from- mass.

at best, human beings have succeeded
in generating energy -from- mass, and
transforming that _mass-born energy_
in to mass. [questionable results,
some call it a 'transporter']

aside from this, human beings have never
experienced a generating of mass -from- energy.

mass ---> energy
mass ---> [work and heat]
no mass ---> no [work and heat]
no mass ---> no energy

finite universal mass dictates
universal burnout given infinite time.
[previous conclusion]

this situation can not be made
to agree with our being here.

infinitely aged, 'eternal', material universe
must be discarded as self evident falsehood.

therefore, this material universe
is finite and must have beginning.


Creation form scratch stands uncontestable.
[previous conclusion]


long story very short;

we are here ---> God

it's really that simple.

no God ---> no us

Us ---> God








here's another problem, the simple fact
that a lab has smashed an atom into smaller
constituents is -not- an indication that these
smaller constituents were ever precursor
structures to the atomic elements themselves.

no lab has ever taken 'quarks'
and -produced- a single atom.

and, we can cite mass spectrometry as a support
for the notion that break down products are not
always to be considered as precursors for
the larger structure.

in mass spectrometry, a molecule is
-esssentially- 'smashed' with a bombardment
of electrons, and fragmentary pieces are
detected by the apparatus.

point being, the fragmentary elements
of the mass spectrometric process are
-not- precursor elements in the
synthesis of the larger molecule.

i can easily support this with details.


so, there's no reason to support
the metaphysical speculation that
heat energy became quarks became atoms.

whole structures may have
appeared in tact from the onset
with some intrinsic fracturing
to allow for wiggle room.

and as such,

any eternal 'substance' that may be said
to exist can only be converted into spacial
atomic material by conscious initiation as
no metastable triggering mechanism exists
which will set off any accidental ignition.

one cannot even go so far as to suggest that
any such "ssubstance" is "consumed" into becoming
atomic material because you lose all ability
to ascribe dimensionality to 'it'.

as far as anyone with a measuring wand in their
hand and a thermometer and whatever other devices
you may employ to analyze the physical atomic
nature is concerned, such devices will not be
relevant to any such non-atomic 'substance'

the atomic materials are a subcategory
of any such 'substance' which can only
be manipulated by the conscious
intent of God.

any such 'substance' is not the sum
total of God's conscious Being.

God maintains God's integrity as conscious Being
before during and after the initiation of genesis
of atomic material from any such 'substance'
to which one cannot ascribe physical
properties associated with atomic materials.

only God, our conscious Being initiator
can deliver the impetus required to convert
this 'substance' into the atomic materials.

and yet, the conscious Being of God is not
altered in any manner and maintains God's
full integrity.

the dimensional nature simply exists as an
idea in the mind of Christ before the onset.

God's full conscious integrity exists today
as it did yesterday and before the onset
of the physical material universe.

God as eternal conscious Being exists
and atomic materials with dimensionality
have a very definite beeginning of time.

God as eternal conscious Being
can be communicated with now.

until one has such communion,
one may simply say that they have
never had such communion with God.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:56:33 UTC
Permalink
and speaking of genesis from singularity
and lack of any triggering mechanisms;

you have to provide as clear a description
for the state of affairs -at- Time T = 0

it's only much after that that you
can begin to speak of any sort of
atomic material, and any properties
which accompany that stuff.

properties which include heat content,
electromagnetic forces, gravitational
forces, and atomic forces, work and energy,
cannot be credibly cited as 'locked'
inside of any 'singularity' waiting
to burst forth.

no, these properties are
the -consequence- of
atomic material.

and so, in considering a genesis from
a singularity state, no triggering
mechanism can be positted and therefore,
a very absolute requirement for some
sort ofconcious being to speak things
into existance from nothing
at all is the consequence
with which you are stuck.


so, backtracking from the atomic world..;

you have your little atom,
and you see it like a spring.

just like a little slinky.

the slinky is wah-wah-ing back and forth.

the wah-wah-ing is what's
giving you time space
and temperature.

that is, the vibrational qualities
of the spring carry the attributes
of time space and temperature.

now, you claim you'd like to visit
a 'place' where the spring is compressed
into a void of zero space.

fine, you crush the atomic spring
into an entirely different substance.

well, now that "stuff" has no spring qualities.

you can no longer cite springlike qualities
in regards to this -other- stuff with
any degree of certainty whatsever.

so, you can't speak of concepts like
"infinite heat content" and "infinite density"
with any reasonable understanding.

no, you have vanished those 'springlike'
qualities in favor of some -other-
set of qualities.

qualities that you can never fully realize
from within the constraints of
your "physical" reality.

that is, you have, first, provided the ultimate
necessity for a "substance" that has no 'physical'
reality and now you must divorce yourself from
making a 'physical' attribution upon this "stuff"
that has no springlike qualities.

you -can- convince yourself, quite readily,
that this "stuff" has no "beginning" but you
can not make this broad leap that the qualities
understood in the atomic reality apply, in any
fashion, to this "stuff" that has
no springlike qualities.

you can't even go so far as to suggest that
this "stuff" is "consumed" into becoming
the atomic material.

but you remain stuck citing
a "stuff" that isn't 'real'.

failing to do so it tantamount to lieing.

in crushing the spring out of the atom,

you have an entirely different 'substance'
which is alien to the physical material
composition to classify.

what you can not broadly assume is that
this 'immaterial-substance' has the springlike
attributes of time space and temperature
locked in a void "waiting" to burst forth.

you are not considering a loaded spring.

you are ceding 'substance' to the immaterial.

energy is not present in a non-atomic state.
no mass, no energy in the material sense.
no volume no gravity, no mass.
whatever is the composition of 'it'

gravitational potential energy is lost without mass.
electromagnetic energy is lost without atomic structure.
heat energy is lost without heat content.
atomic energy is lost without atomic structure.


and you have no trigger to push over
any metastable teetering. what you have
is a definition of energy as an ability
to do work and generate heat,

outside of volume, no work
can be accomplished, and without
atomic vibrations, no heat
can be generated.

so, you cannot suggest that heat and work
were trapped, springloaded, in a singularity.
as heat and work -are- virtues of the material.

no trigger.

you can't just say;

"all energy was in the form
of heat and waiting to be
converted to work"

aside from matter you have no heat.

you need matter to generate heat.

without matter and without volume,
you have no heat or work potential.

those things come in to existance simultaneously.

i said;

"infinite heat capacity and
infinite density are unreal
concepts"

inasmuch as 'infinity'
is -not- a 'real' number.

infinity fails as a 'real' number
by additive identities,

1 plus infinity = infinity

infinity plus infinity = infinity


any real number, when you add another
nmumber to it takes to the next successor
and does not return itself.

no real number, when added
to itself, returns itself.

infinity is a "non-real" 'mathematical' concept.

therefore, 'infinite heat capacity'
and 'infinite density' are
meaningless statements.

what you have is some non-material
with no forcework acting upon it
triggered by some intelligent Hand.

physically 'at rest' with
no forcework to jostle
anything material at all.

which is why i liken it
to a matter/energy 'generator'

you can't speak of 'it' being
'consumed' to produce the material.

and you can't demonstrate that 'it'
is not still just as available
'now' as it was 'then'

this immaterial 'device'
is employed by God and
Jesus made use of 'it'
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:58:09 UTC
Permalink
here's a more interesting question;

why could not God have created a material
universe that was not subject gravity
and entropy?

or, is there but one type
of matter that -can- exist?

making a long story short, as far as
-you- or anyone else can tell, this
material universe is comprised of
the only possible dynamic
interplay of forces.

and so, in speaking of Creation,
in this regard, the emanation of
the material universe from nothing,
by necessity, being a conscious effort,

remains best described as a "bringing forth"

which is why we only hear something like;

"let there -be light-"

and not;

"let me design a specific type of light
that is but one of an infinite variety
of types of electromagnetic radiations"

and still, such light is "good"
and can simply be called "good"
with no resort to 'evil' light.

that is, a "good" thing is described by the
namer of objects but an "evil" thing must
take in to account the conscious nature
of the thing itself aside from
any objective namer.

that is, light can be called "good" by the namer,
by virtue of it's inherent constituent qualities
to the namer, in this case, the Creator,

whereas to call light "evil" would suggest
that light itself has a consciousness and
a will to interact with the assigner,
in this case The Creator,
in a negative manner.

and so, now, we ask;

can gravity and entropy be considered "evil"?

considering that "evil" is -only- a form
of conscious knowledge then to assign gravity
and entropy as "evil" would be assigning a
consciousness to forces of the material
nature, and still, we would be -forced-
to demand that such forces -can- have
-no- choice in their general dynamic nature.

that is, "gravity" cannot -choose-
to behave in any other way that it
behaves as a fact of its nature.

and therefore, lacking a will of its own
and therefore -not- "evil" in and of
the thing in itself.

but to call gravity and entropy "good"
need insinuate no such consciousness in
to the immaterial forces at all, and is
simply a matter left up to the discretion
of The Creator, and whoever makes
such an assignation.

and so, skpping ahead, when God
forms the little creature from
the dust of the ground,

matter that is subject to gravity
and entropy is the -only- medium.

and still, one may simply call
the -medium- a "good" medium,
which has no 'evil' as part
of its constituent make-up.

but if matter must be of a certain
composition no matter who brings
it forth or makes it happen,

that only leads to the idea that,
"there is only one possible God"

as opposed to;

"God cannot be God if God cannot
do a thing that can not be done"

if there's -only- one form of
material universe, -and- God
-must- make it happen,

God is still God

even if you'd like to suggest that
another type of material universe
would have been "better" even if
you cannot describe such a
possibility with any referrence.

and so, you have a God that does not
change and a material nature whose
general dynamics do not change and
a simple matter of authority.
For God, it's basically a done deal,

for God to be 'real' God -must- work
with the realities of -this- material nature.

and still, neither God nor the realities
of the material nature need ever be
classified as "evil"

-man- -can- get stuck in a
wrestling match with
the elements.

and even -this- struggle itself
need not be termed an "evil" struggle.

-and-;

in -our- understanding of the nature of Jesus Christ's
effective work within the material nature, we consider
that Jesus Christ has pinned the material nature on
the mat for the non-material God.

and therefore, that the Identity
of Jesus Christ can be -only-

"The Creator -in- the Material Medium"

essentially, that is how The Creator God
brings the material nature within the
authority of the Fullness of Deity.

by passing in to that material nature
and bring -it- in to subjection of
this Creator God's own Will.

-first- by forming the vessel through
which God -would- enter the material
Universe, and then by entering in to
the material universe merging the
two natures in One.

and right now, we see the Risen Jesus as
having completed a good work and in this
manner as we -begin- to see ourselves
in like manner to Christ.

we see Jesus as having full authority
in the material nature, and entry back
in to the Eternal Dwelling of God,

and we draw ever closer to this full
manipulative authority for ourselves.

but the end product is driven
under God's own discretion.

and so, we walk towards driving our
physical natures as would befit beings
called "good" by God

and not being impelled by gravity
and entropy to -behave- in manners
which are not befitting the title "good"

but which would be in conflict
with the Love of God.

and this understanding we employ
to walk in this manner we know will
be useful when we are allowed entry
in to the Glorified Dwellings of the Deity.

that is, we use -now- to reconcile our
conflicts because those conflicts will
not enter into the Dwelling of God.

this is our Gift.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:59:26 UTC
Permalink
now, as far as considering species diversity

_if_ you -can- accept the notion of
outside influence, that is, a -directed-
'synthesis' of some sort, which notion
is dictated to you by this prospect
of 'conscious intent'

there is really no conundrum at all.

we would simply suggest to you that this
outside influence formulated the initial
templates around which each 'kind' of
creature assembled itself.

no violation of some sort of subsequent
'dog breeding' genetics need be cited.

what part of this ends up coming down to is the
difference between 'expressed trait' [phenotype]
and genetic make-up [genotype] being mistaken for
an evidence of 'speciation'.

simply put, within the genetic makeup [genotype]
of a given species, multiplex 'expressable traits
features' [phenotypes] may be found, -not- all
of which express themselves.

for example; we all can agree that a german shepherd,
a doberman pincer, a schnouzer, a labrador, a dingo
a poodle, and a pekinese are all of the same species.

and then, we only argue against the suggestion
that such phenotypic variance is to be reckoned
as any evidence of genetic speciation.

genetic -richness- procedes to genetic poverty
and not does genetic poverty procede to genetic
richness. [note near extinction of cheetahs].

that is, say you have some proto-feline
assembled around and about a pre-existing
template which -then- may branch outward
into tigers, lions ocelots house-cats and
lynxes each having a lesser genetic richness
that that of the proto-feline.

mind you, i didn't suggest that some
"proto-feline" -was- altered and changed
into the many varieties of felines we see now,

only that that sort of thing
could be positted as 'possible'

whereas, a mouse-like creature altering and
changing into a bear, a monkey, a platypus,
a giraffe, a hyena, a lion, a tiger and a
human being falls under the category;
"outlandish speculation"

but it wouldn't be me and the Creator who
would be forced to make such outlandish
speculations to support purposeful Design,

but those who maintain a support for
random happenstance and unconscious
natural evolution.


whereas, the insistance that a mole or a vole could
enrich itself genetically forming -new- species which
are far removed from it's own genomic tendencies
would seem to be in violation of certain strictures
of so-called "Darwinian" evolution.

that is, that it is genetic richness
which enables the outward branching
of species.

at that point, what we seem to see is a sort of
"dog breeding" in response to environmental stressors
being taken as an evidence of 'speciation'

that is, when there are two varieties of birds;

a large beak variety and a smaller beaked variety,
within the same species, and environmental stressors
cause the apparent anihilation of the small beaked
variety in favor of the larger beaked variety, that
we are not witnessing evolutionary arisal of a -new-
species but only the thinning out of the blood lines,
as it were, where genetic poverty is the result.
of course, the small beaked birds may, indeed,
remain buried under a predominant large beak
phenotype/genotype awaiting a repopulate when
their food comes back.

we -can- say that environmental stressors
have arranged and manipulated the genetics
of a given species in a slow orderly fashion,
but we cannot jump straightwise into the
suggestion that the environmental stressor
built up a newer and more genetically rich
species from a genetically poorer species.

we haven't really seen this.

and so, the suggestion that a vole
spit out an extra set of chromosomes
and that set of duplicate chomosomes
remained dormant on the vole for as
long as it took to rewrite newer and
better traits upon those chromosomes
in response to environmental stressors
that do not as yet exist, is
wholly unwarranted.

that sort of ascension from vole to human
is based on the consistant occurance of
the most elaborate and irreproducible
freaks of nature.

it's just absurd to suggest that single point
mutations on a 2 chromosome, sexually reproductive,
creature will slowly give rise to a rather
elaborate 46 chromosome creature, and so,
one seems stuck with this rapid duplication
of chromosomes -followed- by an immediate
rewrite to form new and better apparatuses[sp?]
with concommitant formation of entire
reproductive colonies in the span
of a single generation.

all in response to an envoronmental
stress that hasn't occurred yet.

it seems to violate the simplest
forms of 'Darwinian evolution.'


if you are asking me did "God"
create a chicken or an egg?

i'd say that "God" created a chicken.

it troubles me not at all that a chicken
and a human being have many traits that
are similar and that the genomes have
similar constituents.


oh, but i don't call 90% of the
human genome "redundant" either.

no, i cite the "factory" theory,
which, if no one else sees fit
to cite, i shall claim as my own.

very -simple- example, so, don't
quibble over the details,

that would be that there may, indeed, be
twelve identical genetic cites which produce
heart muscle, and that all twelve are fully
operational during gestation and subsequent
juvenile periods, whereby, afterward, nearly
all of the factories shut down and only one
or two continiue to produce heart muscle,
and so, it -seems- as if the other ten
are redundant, but that are not.

that is, if these ten cites are not
functionally active in the offspring,

there will be congenital and lethal
heart defects and so, they are not,
strictly speaking, available for
genetic rewrites.

so, the 'rewrites' cannot reasonably
take many many generations to take place.

but once i set up the factories,
-they- can turn fresh air sunlight
and certain mineral deposits into
raw materials for other sorts
of factories.

so, let's say out outside influence, "God"

has a similar sort of manipluative
capability with chemicals as a magnetic
field has with metal shavings.

"God" provides an unseen template.

jump starts the whole process.

i could dredge up a more
detailed accounting if
needs be.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 12:01:18 UTC
Permalink
aside from the implication that
God has not appeared to people in
a spectacular array of light and such,

when some say that God has not been
'proven' to exist, they mean they have
no referrence to mechanical measuring
devices which detect God;

what physical measurement?
what machine apparatus have you
designed that will measure
such a phenomenon?

what, exactly, is the nature of
the phenomenon for which you
seek physical measurement?

in lieu of appropriate answers to these,
your problem is simply one of disbelief
in a thing that you have not
directly experienced.

will you suggest that the flavor chemist
and the perfume chemist are not involved
in scientific discovery?

of course not, as these are two very
important branches of chemistry,
a "hard science."

so anyway, generally, in flavor chemistry,
they run chemical samples from known natural
products thru a machine apparatus like a mass
spectrometer or an infra red or nuclear magnetic
resonance spectrometer to determine the chemical
make-up of a given flavor, say bananas.

they determoine that one of the main
components of the flavor of bananas
is ethyl acetate;

CH3-C[O]O-CH2CH3

now, they synthesize this chemical
from available sources and then,

*they ask people to taste the stuff
to see if it tastes like bananas*

why?

because there's no machine apparatus
that can tell you if that stuff
tastes like anything.

just don't talk about "science"
and "measurement" when you mean,
mechanical detection.

when you develop the mechanical device
that can detect God, and it doesn't
detect God, then you can speak.

you'll simply have to rely, in part,
on the descriptions of human beings
for your "measurements" in much the
same way as the flavor chemist must
rely on human beings to tell [him]
if [his] compounds taste "good" or not.

but, a given experiment designed to allow
you to ascertain the experience of God
is possible and plausible.

and if you dont gain an audiance with the
Holy Spirit the first time, you'll have to
do the experiment over and over till
you get it right.

and central to this, is greeting
the words of Faith with faith.

no faith, no experience.
no experience, no knowledge.
no knowledge, keep silent.

if God's Holy Spirit is detectable
in and by human beings, then this
represents a physical measurement.

to say otherwise is blind assumption that
the human entity is incapable of divulging
proper 'scientific' data.

which is nonsense, as most real discovery
is taken and delineated and accepted by
none other than the human entity.

go drop a stone from the tower of Pisa,
who is taking a measurement? get a sophisticated
listening device to do the same thing,
now who is taking the data? still the
human being, as the machine apparatus
is merely a device to extend
our capabilities.

now, if you cannot design an appropriate device
to extend your mechanical capabilitues in the
area of God detection, then you are simply at
a primitive stage in your machine designing
abilities and need further study before you
can ever make some blanket statement to the
effect that God is not physically detectable
because God is most certainly detectable
by the human entity.

what you have to realize is that God has
placed something -like- a "terminate and
stay resident" program in your being that
behaves -like- an "analog to digital converter."

there is some sort of 'spirit' in man that
remains in the background, that is 'resident'
but not running until activated by
the 'words of faith'

-then- this 'spirit' becomes active
and converts the 'analog' signal from
God, thru the Holy Spirit, into a 'digital'
signal that your cortical brain structure
can interpret as a meaningful presence.

you don't even know it is there
until it becomes activated.

now see, i cannot personally switch on
your 'spirit' and pour the Holy Spirit
into your life, but i can present
statements which can trigger your
TSR programs to activate the
A-to-D converter.



here's someone, with whom i find
agreement, describing a phenomenon
like this "TSR--A-to-D converter"
of which i speak.


----------------
1 Corinthians 13:1 and 14:3-4,13

Though I speak with the unknown
spiritual languages of men and
of angels....

He who speaks in unknown spiritual languages
does not speak to men but to God, in the spirit
he speaks mysteries, for no one understands him;
He who speaks in an unknown spiritual language
teaches himself, if I pray in an unknown
spiritual language, my spirit prays, but
my understanding is unfruitful.

Therefore let him who speaks in an unknown
spiritual language pray that he may interpret.
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with
the spirit, and I will also pray with
the understanding.
----------------


notice that Paul describes a distinction
between the "spirit" and the "understanding"

also notice that you can edify
your "self" in a manner which
your "understanding" is unaware.

hold on a minute, now look at this.
same passage different portion;


----------------
1 Corinthians 14:1-3,12,39

since you are zealous for spiritual gifts,
let it be for the teaching of the faithful
that you seek to excel. Let all things be
done for such edification;

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but
especially that you may speak an understanding
of God which comes from God. He who utters such
divine revelations speaks comfort, encourages
and edifies the faithful.

desire earnestly to understand and speak
divine revelations, and do not forbid to
speak with unknown spiritual languages.
----------------


now he's suggesting that comprehending
spiritual knowledge of God with your
corporeal "understanding" is of
primary importance.

that is, understanding God
with your "understanding"

but look, he's also suggesting that
you may find yourself speaking with
God in a language that is unknown
to your conscious understanding
but -not- unknown to your background
"TSR" program which behaves as
an A-to-D converter.

a trivial example can be found in a
very general description of the manner
in which your computer operates.

your computer operates programs that are
written in a so-called "high level language"
and these high level languages translates
that into a machine code assembly language
and finally into machine code ones and zeroes.

the machine only "understands"
"yes" and "no" which is fed to it
in the form of a "one" and a "zero"
but the machine is able to interpret
the "high level language" of the
computer programmer by use
of compiler programs.

within details.


in a similar manner, there is an intimate
connection between your "spirit" and your
corporeal "understanding," even if the
'two' are non-identical, and both see
growth and aligniment with God's
own Personal Presence.

and now, what would be nice, would be
for that "spirit" part of -you- to relay
the message to what amounts to your
'corporeal' understanding, and reform
-that- thing of -you- in the
image of Christ.

as this should relieve any conflict
which your corporeal "understanding"
may place on your "spirit" inhibitting
your spiritual growth.

a spiritual growth that will further
cleanse the conscience of "dead works"
bringing your -actions- into a greater
conformity with your understandable
"intentions".

understandable intentions which more
and more closely align with a Spirit
who knows no -want-

so, it's like your understandable intentions
are the nexus point between this "spirit"
and your corporeal "understanding".

like, your 'spirit' shows
itself in your -intentions-

and your corporeal understanding
shows itself in your actions.

and you'd like to align a purity of
intentions to blameless actions.

each feeding off the other feeding
from the root of the vine which is God.

----------------
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author
of confusion but of peace
----------------

and that's what Jesus -was-

by a peculiarity of birth, Jesus' "spirit"
-was- The Holy Spirit and Jesus' corporeal
understanding became perfectly
aligned with -that-.


# as this should relieve any conflict
# which your corporeal "understanding"
# may place on your "spirit" inhibitting
# your spiritual growth.


right, a "conflict" very much -like- a
"yes = no" statement in a computer program.

if you tell a machine "yes = no" it won't operate.

in similar manner, your personal conflict
inhibits growth and, in effect, shuts down
your 'spirit' processors.

personal conflict which has "yes = no"
statements as an underpinning.

like i said before,

this sort of situation arises when
you operate under the idea that "good"
is getting what you want and "bad"
is not getting what you want.

this enables you to seek a "good" for
your self at the expense of carrying
out an action which you would consider
"bad" if it was done -to- you.

"good = bad"

"yes = no"

system failure

----------------
1 Corinthians 14:39
desire earnestly to understand and speak
divine revelations, and do not forbid to
speak with unknown spiritual languages.
----------------

ok, so, there still is a definite
benefit to having your 'spirit' edified
in an unvarnished manner where you may
have blood in your eyes and so, you
wouldn't want to immediately sully
an understanding of a thing before
that thing had a chance to work within
your 'spirit' and seep into your
knowledgeable understanding more
slowly removing the blood from your
eyes so that you can see more clearly.

like that 'spirit' "TSR" program had
been dormant in you and when it was
awakened by the words of Faith it needed
refreshement and enlivening with waters
from the fountain of God's own Presence.

and so, that 'spirit' is living and growing too.

so, don't -discourage- the utterrance
in other unknown spiritual languages
as this can be viewed as a direct
sampling from God to you without your
own personal viewpoint getting in
the way of a clear understanding.

which also suggests that you should be
on the lookout for virulent doctrines
taking up residence and corrupting
your understanding of God.

corruptions which display themselves
in a variety of "yes = no" statements.

make no room for this sort of thing.

it is truly for your own good.

thank you for listening.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:57:01 UTC
Permalink
---
Revelation 4:5-6
And from the throne proceeded lightnings,
thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire
were burning before the throne, which are
the seven Spirits of God. Before the throne
there was a sea of glass, like crystal. And
in the midst of the throne, and around the
throne, were four living creatures full of
eyes in front and in back.
---

visualize three sets of
three dimensional spaces


big three D [B3D] <--- stars

little three D [L3D] <--- < = quanta?

tiny tiny three D [TT3D] <--- God


what's funny, is that it is as if,
a dimensionless 'space' exists.

that is, as if, you were in
a non-dimensional construction
and that 'place' had what appears
to be depth and bredth and height

God is not composed of matter
tiny tiny three D is way to small
to accomodate any thing that could
even remotely be described
as matter.

which makes tiny tiny three D
'non-dimensional' as far as
matter/energy is concerned

so, really, for all practical purposes,
tiny tiny three D isn't 'there' for you
to grasp with big three D apparati

but it exists, and God 'thinks'

and 'thought' seems to imply
some sort of discontinuity
of structures.

to tiny tiny three D
the head of a tungsten
tipped needle seems like
an vast universe

but the odd thing is, the vast
material universe seems like the
head of a tungsten tipped needle
to tiny tiny three D

all the little angels -can-
dance on the head of a pin.

and the material universe is
just a glint in the 'eyes' of God.

so, in that moment that God -speaks-

the =vibratory= mechanism -triggers-

and -things- begin to 'appear'

see, and thats' where
more funny things develop


in hebrew, God doesn't say;

"let there be light"

in hebrew, God uses the same
word as the flame from the
bush speaks to Moses,

God says;

"Hayah"

which is that tenseless verb of Being.

the word that is often translated as "I am"

so basically, you have -The- "Hayah"
there in the beginning -speaking-
'Light' in to existance.

and -The- "Hayah" is... YHWH

where "Light" need not be considered as
single wavelengths but a merged pattern
which is subsequently -split- out in to
the "darkness" of space and the "light"
of matter/energy,

where "space" is little
three D and big three D.

what is also interesting is that

tiny tiny three D can be
said to possess -structure-

structure that is ....stable

one implication being that big three D
-cannot- exist aside from little
three D and tiny tiny three D

but tiny tiny three D can exist
aside from and without either
big three D and little three D

it's in the very nature of it that
the initiation of the 'higher' structures
requires conscious decision making.

the decision to 'speak'

where 'higher' is ill defined because
the apparent non-dimensionality of
tiny tiny three D makes comparisons
with big three D a blur with respect
to which is 'bigger'

why?

it's not that you can't associate a -number-
with tiny tiny three D that is on a scale
100s or 1000s of orders of magnitude 'smaller'
than big and little three D, it's that because
no material object is relevant to such a
dimensional plane, that for all practical
purposes, it has no 'real' measure.

and therefore big three D and little three D
can be said to be contained -in- tiny tiny three D.

of course, this does suggest that
the 'vibrational' qualities of YHWH's
spoken annunciations from the structured
environment of tiny tiny three D serves
as a -template- for big three D and
little three D and therefore, it can
be said that matter/energy is not so
much a product of 'design' as -an-
image of The Creator

and then this imaging becomes more and
more focused, to the point where formal
manipulation of matter/energy are required
to educe the perfected Image from the medium.

and that Image carries the
exacting signature of God.


# visualize three sets of
# three dimensional spaces

you can make generalized
statements about the
time function;



# big three D [B3D] <--- stars

time regular and continuous

# little three D [L3D] <--- < = quanta?

time irregular and discontinuous

# tiny tiny three D [TT3D] <--- God

time-less event sequences



what's funny is that 'electrons' are 'travelling'
very fast, at an 'asymptotic' approach to the
speed of light, and therefore time, in describing
their 'motion,' is very nearly at a standstill to
'them' and discontinuous to any 'observer'

it's this great speed that -quantizes-
their energy statistics, that is, because
time for these particles -approaches-
relative zero, smooth trajectories of
flight cannot be calculated.

you can't speak of a moment by moment
description of an electron's flight,
because, for the electron, the interaction
with macroscopic phenomena has no
'one to one' correspondence.

the paradox twins timeframe's have
some 'one to one' correspondence, because
one of the twins approaches the speed of
light in a uniform trajectory from the
perspective of the other twin and then
slows back down in the same smooth and
continuous trajectory pattern.

that is, close to the speed of light, but
not too close one may suggest things like,
"for every second that clicks from the
traveller's watch, 100x seconds click
from the non-travellers watch."

that is a 'one to one' correspondence.

what one -could- pop up and suggest
is that -if- the travelling twin actually
approached very nearly the speed of light
that his trajectory pattern would cease
to be uniform and the 'one to one'
correspondence would be lost.

if the traveller approaches
too near the speed of light,
very nearly c, practically c,
basically c itself,

the 'one to one' correspondence is lost,
and the traveller would enter in to a world
of uncertain physical trajectory.

'now' you can no longer take a picture of
the traveller because the speed of light
and the speed of the traveller are in
competition, and, at best, you get some
visualization -like- the sonic boom.

no matter how 'fast' the film, as the photon
travels back to the lens, the traveller is
moving in a competitive manner and you
get multiple images.

not even a blur, but no real image at all.

this is why you in [B3D] can -never-
appreciate the meandering world of [L3D]

you've got a particle in a box that
is moving too fast to have any direct
correspondence to your spacial
time orientation.

the absence of any material event
sequence in [TT3D] removes the
phenomonology of time entirely.

and now you're in a world with -no-
trajectory patterns at all and images
simply appear disappear and reappear
with no interstitial 'motions'

you don't climb a flight of stairs,

you are downstairs, you disappear,
and then you reappear upstairs

with no interdimensional time sequence.

i like it, it's funny.


just remember, there's no 'evil' in the stuff,
'evil' is a product of the mind of the liar.

i've mentioned that before, that
stuff is still pretty much the same.

YHWH God is Good and Only Good

The Image of YHWH God is Good.

'look' for it, find it, keep it forever.


# and then this imaging becomes more and
# more focused, to the point where formal
# manipulation of matter/energy are required
# to educe the perfected Image from the medium.

# and that Image carries the
# exacting signature of God.


and, of course, it can said that
God is upstairs and downstairs
and 'everywhere' simultaneously.

"God is present"

but so quiet, that the gurgling
in your stomach tends to drown out
your ability to experience this.

but God can -amplify- the signal.

sort of an 'operational amplifier' in
-you- that provides a feedback signal.

all part of the "TSR A to D converter"
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 11:58:35 UTC
Permalink
what you may want to ask anyone
who says that 'virgin birth'
is a 'miracle' is;

are you insisting that
'miracles' do -not- happen?

and then consider material life itself;

there is insufficient physical data to support
the notion that any living tissue will rise from
the earthly surroundings by random collisions of
'non-living' molecules or that -algorithms- will
simply write themselves into existence from the
earthly surroundings under their own volition.

On the contrary a wealth of observation supports
the very opposite notion that Life begats Life
and that DNA is the template for its own replication.

that is, 'we' observe that Life springs
from that which is already alive, number one.

and, that -algorithms- never write
themselves in to existence, number two.

-algorithms- arise from the purposeful
assembly of instruction sets
by an outside agency.

the central dogma of molecular biology would state;

DNA --> RNA --> Protein

and never;

RNA --> Protein --> DNA

nor

Protein --> RNA --> DNA

and the central dogma of genetics would say;

"DNA is the template for its own replication"

DNA, here, is our -algorithm- and we observe,
essentially, that DNA is a primary necessity
for the production of DNA and this has never
been observed to be violated in any manner.

and so, proposing the idea that living tissue
manufactured itself from inert chemical materials
leaves us with a quandary that a purposed phenomenon
like an algorithm, wrote itself into existance
in a set of freakish accidents.

this is contrary to all observation and must,
therefore, be discarded as a self evident falsehood.

now, you -should- begin to see *exactly* why any
proposed theories of 'abiogenesis' are based
on self evident falsehood.

it steamrolls overtop of physical observation and
overwrites it with some simplistic metaphysical lie
gleaned from the entrails of an owl.

as far as physical observation is concerned,
a purposeful Creative Event is exactly necessary.

and this is no accident.

can be classified as "miraculous" even.

certainly, there's more to
a living creature that just DNA.

but, as far as proteins which are -not- alive
following some non-demonstrable mechanism
that fits together a self duplicating and
living organism and then shuts off and
is never seen again, there is not any sort
of viable explanation for such an
impracticable possibility.

the trouble with this sort of consideration
is that it suggests that natural forces
provide the onus for a living cell to
deliver its own functionality before
-it- is there to provide the onus for itself.

that is to say;

natural forces -cause- the components of a
living cell, gathered up from whatever source,
to behave as if they were part of a working
device -before- that device is working

and this phantom mechanistic device carries
out the purpose of bringing the actual device
into being.

it basically cedes a living
-purpose- to an inanimate nature.

it is as if the living cell were
operating without being a living
cell -to produce- a living cell

whereupon, this mechanism
disappears into oblivion,

and the living cell procedes to
continue producing living cells.

that is, the living cell uses proteins
and the like to reproduce DNA et al

but in this very special case,

natural forces did the work of the mechanism
-without- any sort of encoded instructions.

instructions the cell now receives
from the living cell mechanism.

this demands that -no- mechanism has brought
a self promulgating mechanism, in to existance,

where the functions of a cell are carried out
by no cell -until- the actual cell is
there to carry it out.

nothing like this is observed.

it requires belief -against- factual
reality to support such a hokum.

see what i mean?

you have -no- mechanism bringing
a self perpetuating mechanism
in to existance.

and that should be much more puzzling
than any chicken/egg difficulties.

you have the functions of a
cell being carried out by no cell,
-until- the actual cell is
there to carry it out.

nothing like this is observed.


we just say something like;

"the power of will in words is alive"

the design personality of the Creator
turned ideas into reality by a Power
contained in the Creator's declarations.

and materials aligned themselves around
and about those 'powerful' declarations.

and we -have- observed
things -exactly- like this.

now, if we claimed that God was entirely
beyond our understanding, and "unknowable"
-then- we should speak no further,

however, we do not speak of a "God" who is
beyond all understanding and unknowable
but of a Creator who -does- present
God for inspection.

a God we -can- come to know and understand.

we simply maintain that much personal
understanding of the Creator must
be presented -by- that same Creator.

we don't abstract God -from- natural reality

we learn of God from God in much the
same way as we learn of each other
from each other and learn of stones
and flowers from stones and flowers.

the design personality of the Creator
caused materials to align themselves
around a template of conscious purpose,
by a Power contained in the Creator's
own demonstrative declarations.

the Creator molded space in to
a template and the materials aligned
themselves about this template.

theories of 'abiogenesis' would demand
a similar unseen template structure to
exist and operate and would be forced
to cede a conscious -purpose- to an
inanimate nature.

we know the consciously purposeful designer.

this is no mystery to us

and yet, it will forever remain a mystery
to anyone who would make attempts at ceding
conscious purpose to inanimate materials.


no statements in favor of such an outlandish
proposal as inert chemical materials initiating their
own advance towards structures that actually support
living processes because there is no statement that
will possibly stand in support of a conscious purpose
existing in an inanimate material nature.

"conscious purpose"

this is the fundamental idea that
you will never be able to reconcile
with your god-less mythology.

"conscious purpose" is required to initiate genesis

"conscious purpose" is not an attribute
of inanimate material and natural forcework.

"conscious purpose" is an attribute
of Personality and Living Being.

these are not two equally viable prospects.

conscious purpose -is- a Living Personal Being.

we know God.

and life itself is miraculous, not because
we do -not- understand it, but because
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 12:12:29 UTC
Permalink
common knowledge

not simply that any particular grouping
of people have what may be considered
common knowledge inasmuch as they may
draw the same conclusions on
a day to day basis,

but that, to have a common knowledge
is that thing which will designate
one as in league with God.

you may find yourself saying that given
the nature of God, that God is beyond the
grasp of human understanding, and at first
glance, you may think that you have
a valid opinion.

so, who can call to order that
which seems like a formless unknown?

or, more importantly, how will anyone
be able to afford themselves with the
common knowledge that so aligns them
with God that they may actually suggest
that they are in communion with God and
have some semblance of understanding
of things as God considers them?


when God peers into your mind,
does God find anything there
that God can relate to?


what is necessary is the simple impression
of God's own nature which comes from God
and provides a template which guides the
reorganization of your conscious personality
into that image of God, which is
your intended purpose.

as such an effort nears a more complete state
you will not be needing to evaluate your stance
each time a complicated set of circumstances
arises whereby you would need to consider how
God would approach such a thing, or what actions
God expects of you.

you would simply act in the appropriate manner
because you are in possession of that clear
understanding of that perfect will of God as
if that were your first nature.


so, it would not be enough for God to
approach you in your mind and rearrange
things so that God can have a better
idea of where everything is
in your conscious being,

like God walks up to you and starts
alphabetizing soup recipes in your mind
so that God now knows where you are,
and now, to God, you are more well known,

but, that God has to implant some
common knowledge in you that God
can then recognize as an attribute
of significance to God.


it would be only then, that you could
begin to participate in your own
reclamation into the station of God.


before that, you may have some idea
that such a thing as "God" exists and
work at developing some sort of portrait,
of your own device, that you think may
represent what "God" is and is like
based on your own careful assessment
of your environs,

and still fall short of a True
understanding or even a somewhat
sensible picture of the very
nature of God.

a God which you realize may stand
aloof to the material reality
which is your own.


after that God has implanted
a bit of God's own personal
understanding within your
concious being, you may begin
organizing your own personal
conscious stimula around the
seed crystal of God's own Spirit.

in this way, we can say that your
unique identity is maintained but
your conscious superstructure is
simply reorganized so as to allow
you and God to recognize each other
as friendly acquaintances.


particulars not being
particularly important
at this time.


that is, you don't need a detailed listing
from me which would delineate the thoughts
and attitudes which are not recognized by God
as fruitful in your progression towards
that perfected image corresponding
to the love which is God.


=================================



which brings
up a bit about the law;

sort of like God saying to Moses,

"here, these are some of the things
which you humans are having problems with,
as such, these are things which you are
fighting about and hurting each other over
which God cannot look upon as they are not
God's immediate concern but they are most
definitely problems of yours because news
keeps getting back to me how these things
are showing forth as troublesome in your
interpersonal relationships."



and God tells you that some of the
deprivation you are experiencing is
God's own work because it represents
that righteous recompense for portions
of your own attitudes and behaviors.

and so you suggest that God 'knows' evil,
when in reality, God is only Good but the
interference patterns you are experiencing
are bringing you discomfort which you
have classified as 'bad'.


and so, you may see God as sending
you back messages that God sees of
you in your interpersonal relationships
which you are able to understand but,
to which God may still maintain
a complete aloofness.

that is, some of these are not meant for
God but are meant solely for human beings
who are interacting poorly with each other.

and are a sort of first order attempt at
communicating the objections God has with
what God is grasping about your personalities.

personalities which manifest source code
outside of that perfect will of God.

that perfect will of God which
is the only perpetual Life.

so, it's all just common knowledge

big deal.

but common for whom?

etc.



========================
you may find yourself saying that given
the nature of God, that God is beyond the
grasp of human understanding, and at first
glance, you may think that you have
a valid opinion.
so, who can call to order that
which seems like a formless unknown?
anyway, so, you'll tell me
that the bible is incomprehensible
inasmuch as the bible is transmitted
to human beings from God and God
is incomprehensible. or, so you may say.

all we'd be saying is that the bible
is unlocked to human understanding

by Jesus, the opener of the seals.

Jesus, that mediator between human beings and God.

that Jesus who is in possession of the
Divine Nature and most assuredly tasted
human nature, and presents you with
a focused avenue of approach.

that Jesus who knew a Glory with
God and as God, before the beginning
of all things,

and that Jesus who came among us
and tasted the flesh with its life
and its death and that Jesus who
returned to that original Glory
with God and as God.

that Jesus who breathed insights to mankind.

a very simple, and quite valid, necessity.

"Daniel, close this book up
until the end of the age"

and Daniel didn't even
understand what he was
transcribing.

same can be said for much of
the work before Jesus appears.

faint glimpse, as it would be easy
to comprehend when God says
something like this;

"my ways are higher than your ways"

so, God tells you that God is beyond
your immediate grasp, and -that-
you can understand.

so, God says;

"ok, little man, let's reason together,
God means to declare you righteous before God"

thereby telling you that God must come
to you and that God will come to you.

there is no other way.

for certainly God could forever
stand aloof to you and remain
forever out of focus and
incomprehensible to you.

but God did not create mankind
to dash his head upon the
craggy outcroppings.

making vain attempts at rising
to some unattainable pinnacle and
crashing in his hopes long before
he reaches the phantoms of his own device.

you can't walk around this
stumbling stone so as to find
your own way into the
eternal majesty.

it follows you wherever you
go and flaming and revolving.

as if, God may not only remain aloof,
but also, harden God's face against
your ever finding out.

but that's not what we're here for.

we're here to point you at Jesus
and exclaim the all sufficient atonement.

that Jesus who did you a service so as
to make God comprehensible to you and
then would not turn around and shut
you out from God's own presence.

more...



=================================
we're here to point you at Jesus
and exclaim the all sufficient atonement.
that Jesus who did you a service so as
to make God comprehensible to you and
then would not turn around and shut
you out from God's own presence.
more...
and then there's the currency of God.

God's currency doesn't have
an emperor's nor a president's
face etched upon it.

God's currency can't be stolen

nor earned by deceit nor trickery.

its rewards are eternal,

everlasting and can never be broken.

you become the wealth of God.

the routine begins;

the routine begins in your realization
that your life is not your own.

what you realize is that your life
is a gift, and one that will be
given you in measure.

you give the life, you find
in your possession, to God,

and God begins to reward you
with the profound understanding
of God's Own Presence.

as you accept that profound understanding
and make good faith effort to show yourself
as approved, God continues to shower you with
praises in the form of an ever clearer and
deepening realization of God's Own Presence.

aside from this realization,
you are dust destined for dust.

with this realization, entrance
in to the Rest is where the treasures
of the eternal existance are held safe,
and no robbery can remove from this haven.

this is the Mercy of God.

God gives you the entry

an entry you could never earn

you contribute to the elaboration
of God's fineries, these are
treasures you will never lose.

more will be in the details.

the fine lines and intricate crafting
may show themselves to you as of a
more profound beauty than that
exquisite image of the crucified Savior,

but none will be possible to see
aside from that Providence,

as therein is expressed the
initiation of God's Good Will.



anyway, for that abreviated version

the 'common knowledge' that we find important
is that knowledge between God and man.

God knows God and only God is able
to make God known to people,

and Jesus Christ is the common focal point.

God and man come to terms in Christ.


in this respect, it's not of primary importance
that you were ever a backstabber or a murderer
or a thief or held any number of the more
harmful attributes.

you may have been a guy who walked little
old ladies across the street from early childhood
and have always been a civic minded person
who stays out of 'trouble' and -still- you need
Jesus Christ to get a revelation from God.

this has absolutely nothing to do
with how good you feel you are,

but with how God has chosen to focus
and bestow the greater understanding
of God upon mankind.


but it is never a matter of man being owed
something by God and so such a person may
tap his feet on the ground and stand
impatientlybefore God and demand that
God bring him to completion.

"well God, i'm waiting, finish me"

no, before God,
that person who has the perfectly
manicured finger nails and sits at the
very best table in the very finest restaurants
may have the greater difficulty realizing that
he is naked and bereft and in complete
and utter want,

but, his want before God is no less
than that lowly street urchin.

if you don't see God's flaming chariots
circling your head, you won't know this.

we would that everyone could see.


and as such,
if we, or the Angels of God,
were to hate such as these,
we would be wrong,

but when we can pity you,
we see the truth,

because such can be naked
and bereft and not know it.

certainly, we come to God
because we know we need God,

God has allowed us to comprehend this.

and in our gratitude to God, we would see
that all be clothed in fine linens, such that
can never tatter nor decompose.


it's this obstacle course that we have
meandered about in for some time,

because in stark reality
Jesus -is- that magnificence
of awe inspiring enormity
and -not- a leper.

but it is we who need that
clarity of vision to comprehend
that the man with the perfectly
manicured finger nails is no
better as a human being
than a leper.
Timothy Sutter
2005-08-17 12:17:46 UTC
Permalink
what if...

what if, all of a sudden you found
you were given your immortallity

and 99.999% of all of your pursuits
were found to be unnesccessary, and

all that stuff you'd ammased was of no value,

and all that politicking was meaningless gecticulation.

and God was...

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